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Eszter Horváth, first prize winner at World Press Photo - “An expedition to the North Pole is also a quarantine situation”

06/05/2020
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Never before has a Hungarian woman won at a World Press Photo competition. Eszter Horváth took the photo immortalizing a curious polar bear in temperatures of -40 °C at the North Pole. The picture has a far from everyday story attached to it, similarly to how a Hungarian photographer found herself on expeditions to some of the most exotic destinations in the world.

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Horváth Eszter
World Press Photo
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Melinda Hekler
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In the space of just a few days, two Hungarian women found themselves sharing in major photography prizes. Bea Kovács won one of the top prizes at the Press Photo Competition, while Eszter Horváth came out top in this year’s Environment (individual) category at World Press Photo. In fact, she has already had photos published (under the name Esther Horvath) in the pages of National Geographic, New York Times, Wall Street Journal and Time magazine.

What was it like to receive this news?
“Like an explosion. This prize was always my greatest dream. It was already a fantastic experience to receive the e-mail telling me that I had been nominated, that is, that I would be winner of a prize and I wasn’t at all bothered in which position my photo would end up. When during the virtual awards ceremony they named and presented the third-, then second-placed photos, and neither of them were mine, tears of joy immediately started to flow because it was such an incredible feeling.”

I presume that when there is no epidemic, the results are not announced in the framework of an online private group chat.
“Each year, this is a beautiful event that is usually attended by the king of the Netherlands, and it also marks the formal opening of the World Press Photo exhibition. I recently realized that although it would have been great to experience all this live, still thanks to the online awards ceremony at least sixty people didn’t fly to Amsterdam, in the process expanding the carbon footprint.”

Over the past few years, Hungarian photographers have started picking up prizes at World Press. Is it possible that after the successes of Bence Máté we have finally made it onto the ‘photographer’s map’ and thus things were slightly easier to you?
“Right up until the end of the competition, the jury have no idea about the photographers, they do not know who took which picture. This time, for instance, the same photographer won first prize in two sub-categories but this only became apparent afterwards.

“So far, Hungarians have won seven times, but I am the first Hungarian woman to be awarded first prize.”

I suppose you remember the exact moment when you snapped the polar bears.
“The photograph was taken on the North Pole MOSAIC expedition where for the first three and a half months, from September last year to January of this, I looked after photo-documenting of the research. This picture was taken right at the beginning of the expedition but we had just entered the winter night, which means that from then on, for several months, it is dark 24 hours a day. I remember that we had just finished dinner and I went out onto the deck when we noticed that a female polar bear and her cub were approaching the boat. They were curious and started sniffing the electrical cable. I raced as fast as I could up to the prow of the boat in case things worked out as I suspected, and the bears followed the cable; that is when I snapped them. When I had taken the photos, especially when the small polar bear cub stood on its back legs, I felt that this would be a significant picture.

“I was really looking forward to a moment like this, where I could show that we researchers are just guests in polar bear country.

“The picture really reflects the polar darkness as well since it is possible to see only what appears in the ship’s spotlight. Perhaps it is precisely because of the barren landscape and flags that many people are reminded of the Moon landings in this photo.”

This all sounds fantastic when you tell the story. However, how can a person take photographs when it is minus forty degrees outside?
“I gradually found out how this would all work. When we were working on the ice, first I would put on a pair of thin gloves, in these would go hand warmers, then I would pull thick ski gloves over the top, but even so my hands would get so frozen in the -40–45 °C that I cried every day. Finally we acquired a pair of huge gloves, known amongst our group as ‘hand saunas’, but they were so unwieldy that when wearing them I couldn’t even press the shoot button on the camera. Finally, I stuck a series of small circles cut from thick duct tape together – like a layered cake – and used this to raise the height of the button, which allowed me take photographs and not lose my hands to frostbite.”

Are the members of the expedition still there at the North Pole, even during the pandemic?
“Yes, they are in the safest place in the world. It is so interesting that at the beginning of the expedition we also spoke theoretically about the fact that if anything should happen in the world, we would be in the best place of all.”

How could you manage being in a place where you see only the moon 24 hours a day and one day is exactly like the next?
“When we were outside, we always wore a face protector, a hat, a scarf and then a hood over all this. The wind blows constantly, one cannot hear a thing and due to the darkness one can only see what happens to be in the beam of the spotlight at that moment.

“After a time I noticed that a person begins to pay attention to his/her inner self because lacking the usual hearing and vision, the senses work differently.”

In fact, your large ship can be considered a quarantine zone because you were only in touch with each other for months at a time. Do you have any experience from the routine you developed there that you are able to utilize in the current situation?
“The parallel frequently comes to mind. Just like now, we find it slightly difficult to know what day of the week it is, so in the North Pole, in non-stop night, it was difficult to keep track of whether it was Wednesday or Thursday, principally because there were never any days off and every single day looked the same. Most often we worked out the date by the type of food served: stewed vegetables were always served on Saturdays. In this situation created by coronavirus, I have asked myself what I can utilize in my current life of those things I learnt there. If I think back to MOSAIC, the truth is that everything depended on nature and the weather, and we were so at the mercy of this higher being that we only ever planned one day ahead. Each evening we had a talk where the next day’s schedule was laid out, but whether what we had planned would actually happen or not nobody could say with certainty.

“It didn’t matter that we had a plan, if the ice started cracking and we had to struggle to save the research equipment, or polar bears turned up, then everything would be upset.

“It is very interesting that my brain became totally accustomed to this and it was inconceivable that I would even consider or begin to think about what would happen in a couple of days’ time. Now the entire planet is in the same situation, virtually everyone is living day to day. I am looking closely at myself to see whether what I could easily handle on the expedition works here as well.”

And do you feel you are managing to make yourself useful here, too?
“I have not failed yet, but I, too, find it is increasingly difficult because everything is ready for my next expedition and all we are waiting for is the green light signaling the end of the pandemic. I am also really excited that finally, I will be able to publish the greatest discovery of the MOSAIC expedition, which I was lucky enough to capture with my camera. All I can reveal in advance about it is that something happened that not even we had expected.”

I suppose that it tends to be men who prefer to work in such inhospitable circumstances. Would you ever have thought as a child that one day you would be trained to defend yourself against polar bears?

“From childhood, I always saw myself first and foremost as a human being, not as a woman or a man, so I never felt that I couldn't achieve this or that as a woman.

“In my work, too, I always pay great attention to treating everyone as a person and not as a woman or a man. It is absolutely characteristic on expeditions as well that anybody who has made it that far and is ready to work 8-10 hours a day in minus 45-degree temperatures without any rest day, for three and a half months, then it is completely irrelevant what gender they are. The point is for them to feel love for the given environment.”

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Bea Kovács, from master beautician to prize-winning photo reporter

Bea Kovács’s life is worthy of a film: at the age of 40, the thriving, acclaimed beautician decided to study photography, and seriously, too. It soon turned out just how talented she is: she had not even completed her studies when she won the André Kertész Grand Prize...
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Bea Kovács, from master beautician to prize-winning photo reporter

01/05/2020
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Bea Kovács’s life is worthy of a film: at the age of 40, the thriving, acclaimed beautician decided to study photography, and seriously, too. It soon turned out just how talented she is: she had not even completed her studies when she won the André Kertész Grand Prize of the Hungarian Press Photo Competition.

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Melinda Hekler
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One of our more poignant articles was a report in 2018 on the case of Sári and her caring parents. Following a tragic accident, Sári has been in a semi-comatose state since the age of 16. Photographer Bea Kovács met Sári’s father through a friend before a theatre performance. She immediately wanted to ask if she could document the everyday struggles of the family. Thus was born her Semi-comatose photo documentary, which the National Association of Hungarian Journalists (MÚOSZ) reckons is the best human-centric tender submission this year. From the interview it is apparent that not only was it emotionally difficult to make the photo series but receiving the awards that went with it is not an unambiguous pleasure.

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Kovács Bea
Photo: Bea Kovács

Have you been able to speak with the family that was the subject of the winning photos?

“Yes, I constantly send them articles that have been published. When in February it transpired that I was category winner, I received the news with mixed emotions. There was a measure of bad feeling combined with my joy because after all, I received this triumph through the tragedy of these people.

“I wasn’t sure whether I was thus allowed to be happy about the prize.

“Of course, the mother Márti congratulated me on the prize. But it also burst forth from her that she would have wished above all that I had never had to take these pictures in the first place.”

You became a photographer from master beautician in your forties. You are a true example that it is never too late to flee from burn-out, learn a new profession and make a success of it. When and why did you start dealing with photography?

“In 2012, I had worked as a beautician for 21 years and had achieved everything I could in the profession: I acquired the title of master beautician, I received the Silver Wreath award of the trade body, I became a specialist trainer, indeed, I had represented Hungary on the jury of an international competition.

“Even so, after a time I began to feel that something wasn’t right with this lifestyle, that I was shut away inside a room from morning to evening and women who wanted to look beautiful were transformed under my hands.

“I felt that this wasn’t providing sufficient impulse. Finally, in 2012, fleeing burn-out, I decided to work in cosmetics only three days a week and this is how things are to this day. As soon as this decision had matured in me, and I am certain this was not coincidence, I found myself looking at an advertisement for a photography course. Until then I had only taken photographs on holiday using my mobile phone or compact camera and I thought it wouldn’t hurt to bring a little awareness into my photography. Since I am somewhat of a perfectionist and I received plenty of support, I completed one photography course after another, I got my National Qualifications Register certificate as a staff photographer, then last year I also enrolled for the photo reporter course run by the Hungarian Journalists Association. I really enjoy myself because photography gives me the room and freedom that earlier I greatly missed in my profession. My greatest pleasure is not the part taking pains with my completed pictures but I am thrilled about what happens till then, until I press the expose button, as I am involved in these stories. This is the thing that give me a real buzz.”

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Kovács Bea
Photo: Bea Kovács

There are many different kinds of photography, why did you think that the documentary genre was closest to your heart?

“At the beginning, I photographed mainly women who I had applied makeup to in the studio, but I felt that this wasn’t really me. I really got to like the documentary side at the workshops of photographer Gyula Sopronyi and on the documentary course of the Photo Village in Drégelypalánk, led by photographer Róbert László Bácsi. They guided me into the world of story-telling through photographs. Basically I don’t open up to people easily, so at the beginning I only took pictures of people from a good distance using a telephoto lens. One day, Gyula Sopronyi gave me a fixed 28 lens and sent me off to City Park to take a series about the defenders of the park. Once I just noticed that the others were wildly taking pictures but I couldn’t imagine how to ‘thrust my camera’ into the face of an unknown person, since using the given lens it was only possible to take photographs from very close up.

“I quickly realized that I had either to pluck up courage and in the worst case get pushed away, or I wouldn’t be able to take a single shot.

“It didn’t even take five minutes and I found myself having coffee with strangers in front of their tent. It was a great learning experience because I found out that people do not necessarily bite and it is a good thing to go close up to what I want to show about the world.”

It is difficult to imagine that you ever had problems with proximity since you had to become part of a family while taking your prize-winning pictures. You found yourself in numerous intimate life situations in the time that you spent together. How difficult is it to handle such dramatic situations and fates emotionally?

“I still haven’t worked out what my tactic should be: I take in and I process what I have seen, or I stay somewhat remote as a photographer.

“The fact that earlier I learnt mediation, coaching, helps a lot, I reckon, because in both cases it is a fundamental requirement that we cannot be involved in a case, we have to accept the other’s problem extremely objectively.

“Often, in extremely difficult life situations recorded by me, I am most able to help if I have all my wits about me and I concentrate on my work, I remain calm and receptive. I simply cannot permit myself to break down because I cannot afford to direct attention to myself.”

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Kovács Bea
Photo: Bea Kovács

You mentioned in the documentary film in connection with the prize that when you were taking pictures of Sári, you had just attended a self-awareness therapy course because at least there you could speak out about the more difficult moments. Is it also important in photography that a person is happy in themselves? 

“Absolutely! Through the fact that I am not occupied with myself and my recurring problems, but instead I am well-balanced, means that I have energy and can pay attention to others. In documentary photography, you can only take a good picture about somebody if you are ready to adopt the profundity: if you perceive how they live, you notice the tiny signs, what the community of the people in your photos is like and what their relationship is to each other. It is my opinion that better pictures can be taken if the photographer recognizes this information. I’ve been thinking a lot about why I only started dealing with photography recently, and I have come to the conclusion that I reached a point in my personality where I can pay attention to others with patience, with total dedication and openness.”

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Eszter Horváth, first prize winner at World Press Photo - “An expedition to the North Pole is also a quarantine situation”

Never before has a Hungarian woman won at a World Press Photo competition. Eszter Horváth took the photo immortalizing a curious polar bear in temperatures of -40 °C at the North Pole. The picture has a far from everyday story attached to it, similarly to how a Hungarian...
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A woman in the shadow of history – “Hungarians and Germans could look on each other as brothers”

21/04/2020
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Dr Katalin Rákóczi's life is a novel, a history made personal, which could have destroyed her, but she did not let herself be defeated. She is my idol not only for this, but also for her literacy, her intelligence, and her fastidiousness in scientific research. Her beauty in her old age comes not only from her looks but also from her wisdom, which comes from her rich life experience. She is one of the last living witnesses to the persecution of Germans in Hungary after World War II - but we also talked about her childhood in Tolna County, about how the Swabians and Hungarians lived together, about starting over, and about how wounds heal.

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Lívia Kölnei
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You were 11 years old when your until then peaceful childhood was shattered. In September 1944, your father was conscripted into the German army, in December the Soviets took your mother for ‘malinky robot’ (in Russian, literally ‘a little work’), and in early 1945 they confiscated your home. All this happened to your family because in the census of 1941, you declared yourself to be German-speaking. What were the precursors to this? What was the relationship like between Germans and Hungarians in the village you all lived together in?
“Tolna county has been of mixed nationality for centuries. I was born in Váralja in 1933, a small village close to Bonyhád. Until 1943, there were no major problems between the nationalities, the Hungarians and the Germans got along just fine. This is a huge achievement that I cannot emphasize enough: for one and a half centuries, the people of Váralja and surroundings, living alongside each other, had reached the point that they could look on each other as brothers. This is not merely rhetoric because this fraternity was manifested in 1945-46 when they had to help each other.”

What sort of village was Váralja, how should one picture it?
“Located at the foot of the Mecsek hills, two long rows of houses sat alongside the two banks of a stream. The majority of Germans and Hungarians cultivated the land; on the basis of their assets, I would class them as middle-peasants. The poorer among them worked in the mine since there was plenty of coal in and around Váralja. Craftsmen also lived well in the village and there was a need for all kinds of skills. My ancestors were craftsmen or farmers, Váralja was the ancient seat of my father’s family. We were Rákóczis; as far back as I can trace my family tree, my father came from old Hungarian stock but we are not related to the noble family of Rákóczi.

“Several of my father’s ancestors took local German girls to be their wives so speaking German was totally natural in the family.

“My mother’s ancestors resettled from German at the end of the 18th century. There was mixing among the nationalities of Tolna county, as the example of my own parents shows.”

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Choice of religious denomination did not separate people either? 
“German-speaking residents were Evangelical, Hungarian-speaking residents were Reformed, but they married between families if it was advantageous from the point of view of land tenure. Assets overcame all. In my parents’ marriage, too, one could say that reason came to the fore, not emotions, but that is how it was then.”

What language did you use at home?
“Both. It happened that my sister and I asked questions in Hungarian, our parents replied in German, or vice versa. We sometimes inflected Hungarian words in German, and the other way around: ‘Der hat mir geudvarolt.’ – ‘He courted (in Hungarian, udvarolt) me.’ (laughs) In our family, for generations the firstborn girl was named Katalin, while the firstborn boy was János. In fact, the wives of Reformed pastors had a great influence on choice of name within the village. When, for example, the wife of the Reformed minister was called Éva, many little Évas were born in the village.”

Forced labour service and the confiscation of the assets of Germans were preceded by the Jewish deportations between May and July 1944. Did you experience anything of this?
“There was a large Jewish community in Bonyhád, all ethnic groups coexisted with them in peace, but the Jews and Christians did not mix. There were no Jews living in Váralja, which is why I never saw anything of their deportation. However, our general practitioner, doctor Litzmann, was a Jew practicing in Bonyhád. He took out my tonsils in the surgery he had set up in his house, with his wife assisting in operations. After the operation they left me to sleep in the hall. When I woke up one of his daughters brought me ice cream, which was delicious and eased the pain. When the doctor saw that I was fine, he seated me on his motorbike and took me home. I clearly remember them.

“When they started rounding up the Jews, he poisoned himself and his family. One morning the surgery did not open, which is when they were discovered.”

Was it only possible to destroy the peace between German and Hungarian residents from above, forcibly?
“Yes. In the early 1940s, and even in 1943, when the Germans were still seeing advances on the fronts, there were sympathizers of German policies and they became the leaders and active members of the organization Volksbund der Deutschen in Ungarn (People’s Alliance of Germans in Hungary), which was financed from Germany. In May 1944, all the German residents of Váralja were called for a meeting but it was possible to mobilize them only once because the majority could not be effectively influenced politically. However, my father was hit by the enforced military conscription: they took him into the German army as a soldier when it was evident that the Eastern front had collapsed and the Soviets were at the border.”

But wasn’t your father Hungarian? 
“My father was born in Germany because two or three generations of his family had been forced to labour as guest workers in Germany due to the poverty here at home. At that time, they were building mines and factories in the Ruhr and there was demand for an incredible number of labourers. Hungarians and local Germans were pleased to go to Germany as guest workers because they could earn a good wage there. On their return home they built houses and established livelihoods, then the young adult generation also went out there to work, thus several generations of large families found prosperity one after the other. Thus my father was born in Germany and he was still a child when his family resettled in Váralja in the 1920s.”

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So he was actually German?
“The situation was more complicated than that. In 1941, there was a census, in which our family declared itself to be Hungarian with German mother tongue. This was sufficient for my father to be afflicted with all decrees pertaining to the Germans. In the middle of September 1944, the village was virtually emptied because the German men were assembled and marched off. They took them to Poland for training and then sent them to the Western front. A few months later, Szekler families arriving as refugees could officially apply for the houses thus emptied.”

But weren’t only the men taken away? 
“In the first wave, yes, but on 30 November, Váralja was occupied by Soviet troops. In December, they compiled a list that showed those women with German names, aged between 18 and 30 years, who were required to undertake public work, that is, malinky robot. This was the second wave. At that time my father had been absent for months and we didn’t know anything about him.

“In vain did my mother protest that my sister was very small, it didn’t matter, they took her away.

“She worked for three and a half years in one of the coal mines in the Donbass, until she seriously injured her leg and since it would have taken a long time to cure her, they let her go. It took her six months to make her way home.”

How did your family survive this?
“My sister, who at that time was just three years old, suffered terribly at the breakup of the family and our home being taken away from us. Very many Bukovina Szekler refugees from Bácska arrived in the country on wagons, and the county assemblies had to resolve their settlement. The eviction of the Germans represented the solution. A two-horse wagon stood outside the door, the most important items were packed onto this and everything else had to be left. The local Hungarian residents thus got, or more precisely collected the domestic animals that had been abandoned – this was only sensible because otherwise the animals would have died. And, of course, for this an applicant was required who hankered after our house, my father’s well-equipped carpentry workshop and tools. The fact is that at that time our family was relatively well off, carpentry work brought in a good wage, so it is no surprise that the new arrivals were keen to acquire our place.”

Was all this done on the grounds that the Germans in Hungary were war criminals, while the arrivals coming as refugees were Hungarian?
“They cited this as a reason, but the main reason was that the refugees and displaced persons coming from Hungarian-inhabited areas beyond the border had to be homed somewhere. This solution presented itself.

“There we were, penniless, with a wagon full of stuff, and on top of the wagon I sat with my sister. We had to find somewhere to live.

“A neighbouring family took us in to their outhouse in the courtyard and this became our home. Two beds were squeezed in, in one, grandmother slept with my sister, and in the other the grandfather slept, while there was no place for me. I remember how little I understood of what was happening. I slept for three or four nights wherever I could find a place.”

How did you survive these years?
“The Sisters of Mercy in Bonyhád accepted me in their halls of residence along with about 25 other girls who were similarly without a place to stay. They also took us in because the news was going around that Russian soldiers were raping women. I completed the higher elementary school for girls, several of the residents of Bonyhád helped us with food donations, bedding and clothing.”

What was life like in the residence of the Sisters of Mercy?
“I am very grateful for the board, lodging and education they gave me but it was difficult for them to find the right tone with teenage girls, they were unable to provide useful advice about our physical development. I now realize that they were elderly nuns, there were only two young ones among them, what else could we have expected? They did everything for us that they could, they were generous in providing help. We girls suffered somewhat from the heavy discipline that characterized our life in the residence, but the education we received there made it possible for me to continue studying.”

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What happened to your father?
“He was captured in France, then he was handed over to the Americans who released him. He set off for home, he worked in towns and villages on his route, earning enough money to continue travelling. Later on he told me that he always made sure to travel alongside the Danube in order not to lose his way. When he arrived home, his trials and tribulations were not over: it was possible that he would be branded a deserter and as punishment he would be taken away to the Soviet Union.

“That is why he hid in a press house on a vineyard in Bonyhád and he kept in contact with us in secret.

“He lived there for a year, even throughout the winter. He made a fire and cooked himself simple meals.”

Wasn’t he worried that somebody would report him?
“He wasn’t the only one living like this. Later on it turned out that the whole of Mecsek was full of people in hiding who feared for their lives. Luckily, we avoided being deported to Germany because at the time our father was a prisoner and our mother was in the Soviet Union. When finally father could come home our family found itself in a far better situation because he could work legally. In the end the outhouse in the neighbour’s garden proved too small so he went to the community hall where he received authorization for us to rent a room in a house. Thus our grandparents remained where they were and my father, my sister and I moved to a rented room. At that time my mother had still not returned home.”

Who in the family was looking after you and how did you find enough to eat? 
“My paternal grandmother raised my sister and it was a constant worry where to find food for the family. We couldn’t keep our own chickens in the neighbour’s courtyard. Grandpa hoed the land of his hosts and worked where he could in order to earn a little money. We didn’t die of starvation. Grandma lit the iron stove and cooked beans on it. While those cooked for a long time, she washed our clothes and us as well since this was the only time we had hot water. By the time mother returned, my paternal grandfather had died.

“It is a miracle that amidst all this penury not one of us ever lost faith that one day this would change for the better. And this is what happened.”

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How did your mother make it home?
“In the summer of 1948 we believed she was no longer alive, but even so, every morning, together with the other women and children, we went off to the railway station at the end of the village and waited for the train. Notes and letters were often thrown out of the train windows, we collected them and forwarded them to the addressees. This happened every morning, after which we all went our own way to get food or go shopping. Anybody who had a cow found people lining up for milk – as a child, my sister came first when the milk was shared out. Then we got the news that a transport of people had arrived at the Hungarian border from the Soviet Union, but they were not being allowed entry because somebody on the train had TB and they had to wait in quarantine. Then one morning somebody came with the news that “those from Váralja and Bonyhád were arriving”. We raced down there and waited, and suddenly it was true, they had arrived. My mother was limping because the mine car had torn off a large part of the flesh of her calf. This is why they let her return.”

It is a miracle she survived this major injury.
“The accident itself is also a miracle because if it hadn’t happened to her they would have kept her there and she might well have died. She was freed as the price of her pains. She said that the Russian doctor who treated and nursed her was a very decent person.

“So, not everyone there was a bad person, indeed, perhaps soldiers and civilians of all nations preserved some crumbs of humanity even in the most trying of circumstances.

“Health-wise, she was in a very poor state. She brought with her a piece of bread, but such dark bread the like of which we had never seen before since we were used to white bread. We found it sticky, gluey and awfully bad, that is why we were even more sorry for her because she had to eat this sort of food. How interesting that nowadays this has really become fashionable to eat. So, in the summer of 1948 we were once again together as a family and we all continued on our own calvary.”

Did your parents’ relationship survive all this, were they able to recover from these experiences? 
“They were tough people. Neither their relationship nor the way they reared their children was characterized by sentiment. Our mother virtually never spoke about her trials. Perhaps this had been forbidden of those returning from labour camps, but anyway she didn’t want to talk about it, saying we should never ask her. I remember that earlier my mother had been angry with one of her cousins, they wouldn’t talk to each other. They were both taken to Russia together and at that time had been forced to sleep under the same blanket. When they returned home there was a big argument, they really let fly at each other, then slowly they calmed down. (laughs) In fact, my father similarly only very rarely spoke about his captivity and trip back to Hungary, although compared to my mother he was in a far better situation.

“When those who had been deported from the surrounding area returned home en masse, one of the priests announced a meeting of residents of neighbouring settlements. Everyone went and sought out acquaintances who had returned from malinky robot. Church feast days were also used to visit friends and relatives. During these meetings we children heard the occasional comment about what had happened in the labour camps. For example, one of our neighbours said: “They made us strip and we had to run naked in front of the Russians.” Someone then replied: “So you don’t know why they did this? They wanted to know who was pregnant. Anyone who was pregnant was permitted to go home.” But we were never able to put together in a coherent form what we had heard...”

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How did your choice of a career come about? In your family, it was not a tradition for the girls to continue studying.
“I have much to thank to my elementary school teachers who prepared us for the private exams even when we couldn’t go to school. As soon as I took the exams in the eighth grade, I was sent to Dombóvár and the teacher training institute, that is, the Pedagogy Grammar School or as it was renamed later, Hungarian State Teacher Training College. The majority of people studying there were Swabians. From this moment, my life was on the right path.

“My parents were very pleased when I completed teacher training because they considered that I had found my place in the world, I could now go and teach in a village.

“But the devil was in me and I decided that I would go on to higher education in Pest. This astonished my parents. I had to fight very hard so that I could go to university. From that moment on, I found myself at odds with the family, although without exception my teachers in Dombóvár backed me and helped as they could. They suggested that exploiting my German knowledge I should apply to the German department of ELTE university, which at that time could only be selected in parallel with Hungarian studies. However, I was taken on not there but to the department of journalism. Still, as a result of my stubbornness they finally did take me on to the German department. As a university student and in comparison with the earlier poverty, I lived like a king. By then, the socialist management were not interested in my Swabian roots, just that I was the child of a poor miner, which is why I found myself in the most favoured position: besides my study scholarship I also received a social scholarship, I was accommodated in halls of residence and I received free catering.”

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At that time there was the centrally planned economy system with designated workplaces. Where did you find a job?
“After completing university, in 1957 I asked to go to Dombóvár because I was familiar with the town. Luckily, this is where I was sent first. However, in the meantime I had married and we lived in rented accommodation in Budapest, and for this reason I wanted to go to the capital – but I only received a teaching post in Isaszeg. My train to Isaszeg departed at 7 each morning and I got back home at 8 pm. Together with my 20 commuting colleagues, we did all the school work during the rail journey adding up to several hours. It was especially difficult being a teacher in Isaszeg because as a nationality village and due to estate relationships, they only married between themselves. By the 1960s, due to inbreeding marriages, the intellectual retardation among the population had reached such a level that a special needs class had to be initiated alongside virtually every school class. I became head of just such a class. It was extremely exhausting and I could bear it for only two years. Interestingly, this is where I met my colleague Éva, who later became a Carmelite nun with the name sister Amáta in Mayerling, Austria. Emperor Franz Joseph had the mansion where his son Rudolf and his lover, Mária Vetsera, committed suicide converted into a convent. The nuns living in extremely strict asceticism pray each day also for their spiritual salvation.

“After Isaszeg, I finally found myself in Budapest, although not teaching but as a curator at the Museum of Military History. For this job I also completed – later on – studies at the librarian department at ELTE university. I spent many years there, receiving an award, too, the National Defence Medal of Merit.”

Here it is. I can see that instead of the letter ‘i’ in Rákóczi, they wrote it with a ‘y’.

“A minor fault given that this award is very rarely presented to a civilian, not to mention a woman. (laughs)

“Later on, I worked at the Semmelweis Museum of Medical History and Library, where for many years József Antall, later prime minister, was the director. After I retired I was awarded the Zsámboky János Prize for my work in medical history, particularly research into the career of Ignác Semmelweis and the translation of his works into Hungarian.”

How did your parents’ fate resolve itself? Were there any bad feelings between the Bukovina Szeklers and descendants of Germans?
“In 1951, they had the opportunity to buy another house, by that time the migration wave had eased, everyone had found their new place in society, even those few Germans who remained in Tolna county. I found that these antagonisms also smoothed out over the course of decades. While strolling through Bonyhád I saw written over one of the gateways: ‘Salát van gabható’ (roughly, ‘Lettice for sail’). In my mind, this phrase symbolizes coexistence, fraternity. If the ‘Hitlerites’ had never come about, then we would have escaped that extremely miserable period lasting a few years.”

Dr. Katalin Rákóczi – curriculum vitae
Born in Váralja, Tolna county, on 4 November 1933. Awarded a teaching certificate from the Dombóvár Teacher Training College, then graduated from the German-Hungarian department (1957) and librarian department (1969) of the Faculty of Arts and Humanities of ELTE university.
Her first workplace was Dombóvár Teacher Training College, then the primary school in Isaszeg. In 1960, she became a scientific member of staff of the Institute and Museum of Military History. In 1978, she was appointed chief scientific member of staff at the Semmelweis Museum of Medical History and Library. She wrote her doctoral dissertation in German on medical history, which she defended in 1982. Her scientific research focused on the history of medicine between the 16th and 18th centuries. Another important task she had was translation of specialist literature written in German. Her Hungarian translations of Károly Kerényi’s book ‘The Divine Doctor. Asclepios: Archetypal Image of the Physician's Existence’ was published in 1999, and Ignác Semmelweis’s principal work ‘Etiology’ came out in 2012. She is associated with numerous reviews and lectures given in Hungary and abroad.

 

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Andrea Bocelli: “Life triumphs over destruction”

15/04/2020
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Andrea Bocelli is an icon and his voice is a balm that warms the heart. He has been singing in front of huge audiences at the world’s most famous opera houses, concert halls, arenas and on stages under the open sky for close on 40 years. His most recent performance was on Easter Sunday from an empty Milan Cathedral. We spoke with the world-famous tenor about the ‘lessons of coronavirus’, his activities in the foundation that bears his name, his belief in mankind and the days he has spent in isolation with his family.

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Ágnes Jónás
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The global pandemic is virtually the single topic of conversation these days. It makes life very difficult, and not only physically but mentally, too. Some are beset by anxiety, some become apathetic or are frightened because they feel they have lost control over their own lives. What is in your soul and on your mind these days? 

It is shattering for me when I have to face destruction, death and pain, particularly when this afflicts the most vulnerable, for instance the elderly or children. Over the past few weeks and months, we have had to face up to our own fragility, we have experienced something tragic. But I believe that this tragedy is at the same time an opportunity to rethink our lives, to closely examine those things that are truly important for us, as well as to recognize those ingrained bad habits and attitudes that we must change.

The pandemic is a massive ‘exclamation mark’, a powerful warning to humanity. It indicates that an era has closed, the 20th century. Just as the outbreak of the First World War signalled the closure of the 19th century.

This is the moment for us to slow down and listen to our planet, our own conscience, the word, the message of a higher being. I truly hope that we will learn the lesson, take the experiences to heart, reformulate priorities and change our attitude towards life.

How are you and your family handling the self-isolation period? What kind of activities do you do together at home?

I am in a privileged position because all my children – from the youngest to the oldest – are together with me, under one roof, we meet every day, we don’t have to be separated, and of course I am with my wife, Veronica as well. I make every effort to broaden my knowledge, I read and study a lot, and listen to music. More than anything else, I try to spend as much time as possible with my children, talking to them about anything.

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Andrea Bocelli

Kép: Almud Music

I now have better insight as my wife looks after our young daughter, Virginia, as she helps her doing homework, and they play or have fun.

Then there is the work of the foundation that bears my name, the Andrea Bocelli Foundation, which takes up much of our time and energy.

I know that you love sports, particularly riding. You now have to forego this.

I can’t wait to go riding along the seashore again, and I hope that this will happen very soon. You know, I believe that performers are at the same time athletes. They must train every day to keep their bodies, their minds and their vocal chords in shape, and they have to stay healthy. Happily, both my wife and my children are also very pro-sport, we all try to stay healthy. I work out, for example, with a skipping rope, I use an exercise bike and run on the treadmill.

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Andrea Boccelli

Kép: Almud Music

Seven years ago, I asked you about the abovementioned Andrea Bocelli Foundation and its goals. What is the biggest mission of the Foundation today and what projects are you most proud of?

ABF has grown enormously in seven years, we have completed nearly 20 major projects and we are extremely proud of our achievements so far. The aim of the Foundation remains maintaining the heritage of contacts, binding those relationships of trust, which we created with many people over the course of years. The Foundation functions as a living laboratory, it comprises many people with close bonds imbued with the love of music, who are united against deep poverty in the developing countries and who are able to brave the challenges of social environmental impacts.

In 2016, central Italy was rocked by an earthquake; the powerful temblors resulted in several thousand deaths and some settlements were totally devastated. We took aid to these settlements and we did everything we could to repair the damage.

We also placed particular emphasis on education: we had so-called seismic-proof schools built in record time.

With the help of wonderful teachers and professional equipment, we are trying to create the optimal conditions for young gifted individuals. We also involve art and music in their everyday lives. ABF has been engaged in the fight against coronavirus from the start: we launched the ABF – With you, for the COVID-19 emergency fundraising campaign. We are using GoFundMe, one of the world’s largest platforms, for the donation campaign. We have been able to use the funds raised to supply Italian health-workers with appropriate personal protective equipment and we have donated four ventilator machines to the hospital in Camerino.

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Andrea Bocelli

Kép: Almud Music

Italy has also launched an international image campaign that you joined.

The Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation launched the #WeAreItaly #StayTunedOnIt in order to promote Italy during these difficult days. I myself and many other Italian artists joined this initiative. Through video messages and in other ways we try to ensure that the world does not lose contact with Italian culture. Italian cultural institutions are popularizing many projects that provide Italian and international audiences with very special, virtual cultural entertainment.

As an artist I believe it is my duty to take part in musical events and initiatives that contribute to the welfare of people and that give joy and hope.

Music remains a remarkable, sensitive instrument, precisely because it can express the inexpressible. It is a universal language that teaches us to sense the beauty and wonders of life. If we do not hesitate to seek – and share – this beauty and tiny marvels, then we can change ourselves and the world.

Do you believe that man can change? Do you believe that humanity, which over the millennia has been the cause of so much bloodshed, can make a change for the better in the not so distant future?

I am an optimist. Easter always reminds us that rebirth is truly possible – for believers and non-believers alike. The Resurrection proves that life triumphs over destruction. We must put an end to the destructive, dangerous, unhealthy, degenerate games. The current situation provides just such an opportunity; furthermore, that we improve empathy in ourselves, that we care for those who are around us, who are important for us, and we wake up to the realization of what a privilege it is to be able to live together and to touch one another.

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Andrea Bocelli

Kép: Almud Music

As a man of faith, I think that the mind of mankind is too small to understand the logic of God. Yet it is to that complex logic that I entrust myself, heart and soul, every single day.

I saw your May and June tour dates on your website. In this respect, too, you appear to be optimistic.

Many of my tours and concerts are booked years in advance, but whether I can hold them depends, naturally enough, on governmental provisions. As soon as I get the green light, I will return to singing. I must admit, I greatly miss the direct contact with the public, that ‘soul-to-soul’ energy apparent in big venues.

If you possessed any superpower to change one thing in the world, what would it be?

It would be wonderful if a new generation could live in a world without war, where good could overcome evil, and where man would be able – through technical development and medical advancements – to do away with pain. In fact, this is far from being impossible. I think that if we come together and work hard, all our dreams can come true.

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Wolves and goosebumps – with the Bagossys, the song speaks on

05/04/2020
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They started out from the Transylvanian town of Gheorgheni (Gyergyószentmiklós, pop. 17,000) in 2013 and in 2020 all tickets for their Budapest concert for 10,000 were sold out months in advance. Despite the ‘impudent’ youth of Norbert and László Bagossy, founders of the five-member Bagossy Brothers Company – along with Szilárd Bartis, Zsombor Kozma and Attila Tatár – they live their success story with remarkable wisdom.    

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Bagossy Brothers
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Adrián Szász dr.
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Do you get on well together as brothers?

Norbert: “Very well would be a more precise formulation although Laci certainly remembers times when I didn’t let him play on the computer because as the older one, the keyboard was mine. In my defence, at 14 the two-year age gap appeared a lot but before or after this, we did virtually everything together.”

László: “We also started playing music together. I always looked up to Norbi and, with a slight delay, copied his hobbies. Roller-skating, too, in which he made it to the ‘escape from the backflip’ trick, and then quit while he was still ahead... Then we checked out dancing but even then he was not attracted to simple ballroom but rather break dance.”

When did music come into the picture?

Norbert: “I must have been around 15. To start off we tried to play familiar solos on acoustic guitar by ear. We were mainly influenced by English language music from the 2000s, from Linkin Park to Britney Spears.”

László:

“Then a friend showed us how to play chords and a new world opened up. We learnt eight or so a day from the internet, our fingers were all blistered but we felt we had to do it!

“We also went to a guitar class with philosophy teacher László György, where Bob Dylan, Bryan Adams and R.E.M. songs were played. This kind of musical upbringing defined our tastes”

What sort of kids were you?

Norbert: “As soon as we learnt to walk, we left home at sunrise and only returned home at sunset.”

László: “Whatever we started, we gave it 120%. At the beginning we were thinking of a band, we wanted to be international stars. With our own songs, calculatingly. When we got our first guitar from our mother and her sibling, Norbi also acquired a drum set. We installed them in the first floor apartment and to the delight of the neighbours we started rehearsing. We knew even then that I would be the bass guitarist, even though at the time we didn’t have a bass guitar.”

Norbert: “And even then we were writing our own songs at a time when we couldn’t play the music of other bands properly!”

László: “The first song Norbi wrote was titled Big Adventure. It was about life being a great journey.”

You have played together with Szilárd, the drummer, from the beginning, and the others in the band are locals, too.

László: “We thought that musical skills could be learnt so that ‘finding common ground’, that as people we should get on well, was more important. We thought that we would grow into everything else and this is how it worked out.”

Norbert:

“We chose friends to make music with, not musicians that we became friends with.

“This was important because we spent more time together than with our families, that is, we are ‘family’. We look after each other and back each other up.”

When you set out on a career, what ‘civil’ jobs did you have?

Norbert: “I taught dance, I made doors and windows, and both of us were storemen in a drinks depot. Our guitarist Ata is a real globetrotter, he has been a waiter on cruise ships and run a tourist office. Szilárd worked with Laci in a workshop making organ pipes. Zsombi, our accordionist, is the only one who has a paper saying he is a musician, and he still gives private lessons to students to this day. When we decided to invest even more energy into the band, I was the first to resign from my job on a now-or-never basis.”

You spent 18 month to two years in Transylvania picking up experience in music, let’s say.

Norbert: “We progressed gradually, living the real rock n’ roll life like you see in the films. The five of us travelled around in a packed estate car. We called up pubs and radio stations to see whether they would allow us to play or air our songs. Zsombi joined when we were looking for a keyboard player but his instrument wouldn’t fit in the car. ‘So then play violin’ we told him, but that resulted in audio feedback everywhere. This is how the accordion came about, which he learnt just for us, and it has now become the band’s trademark.”

Was moving to Hungary a big change?

Norbert: “We didn’t want to appear on the market without quality material so as part of the Cseh Tamás Programme we cut our first disc and arrived in Hungary with it, where we had to start everything all over again. It didn’t matter that we had played to 2000 people at home when here we had an audience of max. 50. True, we had more than 100 concerts under our belt by then. Virtually every week we drove the 750 km from Gyergyószentmiklós to Budapest in a way that the bass guitar lay like a table in the laps of the three people sitting in the back. The drums were packed into each other but as the car got bigger, so we carried more stuff around.”

What sort of reception did you get in the mother country as Transylvanians?

László: “We never did anything so as to be treated as Transylvanians.

“Obviously we bring musical things, things that are part of our system of values that we are proud to advocate, but we don’t want to make anything out of the fact that we come from beyond the border.

“It is particularly good that our first song didn’t get a great reception straight away, so a single hit didn’t place pressure on us.”

Where do you draw inspiration for Bagossy songs?

Norbert: “Generally I write the lyrics and melody by myself and if I consider it good enough I show Laci who puts together the scoring. Luckily we are on the same wavelength, he senses what the song needs and what else I conceived in it.”

László: “Obviously we draw inspiration from foreign productions because the British and American benchmark will always be the benchmark. Sometimes Norbi tells me to check out the solutions used in, for example, the latest number by Shawn Mendes and I understand what he is talking about, but our final result will still be completely different.

“Every song has its own little life. You can’t integrate something without making it specific.”

Norbert: “The Hungarian language itself is special. For example, prolongation of the vowels is not my thing therefore I pack more syllables into the lines than a foreign band. There is far more emotion in our songs than speculation, although we like experimenting and obviously our taste shifts as things go along.”

I suspect that after a while you had to relocate your base to Budapest, or at least in part.

Norbert: “We said about half a year, a year ago that it hadn’t even struck us that we were already living in Hungary. I reckon we will be dual residents for the rest of our lives.”

László: “At the beginning we didn’t think we could live in Budapest, after all we come from a small town and the contrast was huge. But now each corner here, too, has a memory or experience and this makes it feel like home. This is home here and that is home there as well.  When we go back home we value the silence, when we come back a whole ton of opportunities open up again. We are happy to come and happy to go.”

How are you treated in Szekler land?

Norbert:

“They are pleased about our success and in our case it is perhaps not true that you cannot be a prophet in your own land. We owe a debt of gratitude to those people there and the fact that we have only about 15% of our concerts there is how it worked out given the distribution of Hungarians.”

That said, you recently shot a clip in your homeland as part of the Road Movie project…

Norbert: “This is the first time we wrote a song to commission, I’m Coming Back, and the final result says a lot about us. Attila Árpa directed it. We show the country at home so that it is not in summer, nor winter like other videos, but in a part of the year when we receive a little warmth yet one can feel it is cold, too. As the lyrics put it: ‘winter is warm when heated from home’. It is possible to scratch one’s head about whether a man can become a wolf or not because we left the end of the clip open, giving space for the viewer and audience to think further.”

Where do you go to relax?

Norbert: “We were all brought up in the mountains, we are people close to nature, we can relax in nature as well. In Hungary, for example, close to the Balaton, or in Transylvania, of course. The point is to withdraw to an environment where we can hide a bit from the world.”

What has changed in you now that tens of thousands are following you?

László: “It places responsibility on our shoulders because it matters how we use the enormous attention that has been directed towards us.

“If you can communicate to twenty, thirty, forty thousand people, suddenly what you say carries weight.”

For instance, ecological awareness. Among your merchandise there are ‘green gifts’ and you will have a tree-planting scheme as well. How else would you like to influence people?

László: “Finally, environmentalism is a sensible fashion! We will never forget the musical evenings in our childhood which were followed by conversations frequently lasting late into the night. These stirred in us empathy towards the thoughts of others. We apparently talked philosophically about nothing but we still got closer to something through this. I believe that the songs are also like a conversation. You listen to them, they say something to you for two weeks, then you put them in your pocket and take them out later and they already say something different to you. These sorts of ‘conversations’ can bring about huge development emotionally. And this is not only relevant for our music but for music in general. If it makes you shiver, if you get goosebumps from just a part, that means the message has got home.”

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Women and men in a new world “Tolerate each other with love!”

31/03/2020
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Perhaps we, women and men, truly are starting to build a new world. We don’t know what will happen after the pandemic, but in all likelihood it will be a different world to that which these microscopic and uncontrollable bugs are currently devastating, and against which both science and politics are forced on the defensive.

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tolerate
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women
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Lívia Kölnei
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The experience of our fragility and vulnerability provides the perfect opportunity for us, women and men, to once again turn towards each other. To affirm once again what always was in times of great trouble: the true, final refuge that is capable of providing actual and effective protection is the smaller and larger family. The more extensive the family network is, the more it is able to offer protection, but only when its adamantine core (more often than not a man and woman living in a binding relationship) is able to link together all its constituent parts in a loving relationship.

How many counter-interests are used in an attempt to cover up or refute the fact that a family arising out of a committed partnership of a man and a woman is the stem cell of society, and there is no alternative!

An entire political industry is at work to break down the family, claiming that marriage is a fake relationship that oppresses women and that the family hearth is in truth a powder keg where children only receive lovelessness. They flat out claim that a large part of worldly violence occurs in family homes. We know, however, that the greatest part of all-human love is manifested in families, and globally the family is the principal zone of safety – and still we have a tendency to accept statements such as these, or at least let them pass without comment.

But why do we fall for this? Perhaps because there is no perfect partnership, the man-woman duality in truth frequently wobbles and because of this we have a bad conscience. Occasionally a relationship does in fact degenerate, the solution to which, in the better case, is divorce, and in a poorer case actually becomes a source of fire in the partnership, which is virtually irreconcilable. However, relationships that are just wobbling can be fixed with inner will and external help.

But how can a man and a woman have the will to take action for their own spiritual well-being, to work constantly to improve their relationship?

After all, in patriarchal societies marriage was such a normative part of communal life from which it was forbidden to quit (at least officially and primarily for women), so it gave no encouragement to improve the relationship of couples, at best just to endure. In social structures building on individual freedom, which frees up the termination of all forms of coexistence, there is similarly not sufficient incentive to achieve a quality relationship because in a throw-away culture of consumption it is easier to swap a partner than understand him/her. One has to add to this the fact that today, a large part of adult generations grew up in fragmented families, the absentee father is a particularly painful wound for them, and on top of this their parents could spend barely any time with them due to the demand to make a living. Thus they only know of ‘love until the grave’, the myths of unconditional trust, from romantic films. Many have no positive relationship role models, thus they also don’t know that they should deal not only with the wishes of the body but the soul, too. With the passing of the first passion and heightened emotions, they experience the inner needs of their partner as claims or selfishness, and they are unable to resolve their conflicts.

Even though today we stand a far better chance of finding a solution than at any time in preceding centuries.

Every human community has good and bad partnership experiences of generations and using the insights given by modern psychology it is possible to process these and make them useful. If, moreover, we can list alongside this examples of couples who have managed to establish well-functioning patterns of coexistence across decades, then it becomes evident to every young person starting off from a disadvantaged situation that relationship happiness and satisfaction exist not only in romantic films but in reality as well. Good relationships begin with will and are realized through constant attention and acts.

Another way of putting it is that even if we didn’t inherit good examples, a good relationship can still be learnt!

Just as today we have on average more scientific knowledge than our predecessors did, so we also have more knowledge about human relationships. Just as the state of our teeth demands that we keep a constant check on them, so we can prevent decay right at the beginning of the problem, so our spiritual life, our relationships, also require monitoring from time to time, with the help of experts (and, of course, friends and experienced acquaintances). Starting from primary school and going all the way to university, everybody – in accordance with age – should develop those human skills which help their disposition turn in a positive direction, help build their relationships and help assertive social validation. This would certainly result in an increase in the number of stronger, more acceptable and more loving relationships, which would then give a greater sense of security to growing children and cause fewer psychological defects.

In my view, the loss of trust, the shaking of man-woman relations that can be experienced today is no greater than what existed in more covert forms in earlier times. It is just that the social ‘exclusion’ constantly covered as a topic by the media is more powerful and dramatic, thus the role-seeking and adjustment to the necessarily changed social challenges of both genders occurs in greater desperation.

The women’s rights movement, that is, feminism, was not the cause but just a necessary consequence of changes in external circumstances. In the past 150 years, we have approached that ideal equality of rights of the members of the two genders that is symbolized in the following line from the Bible’s story of creation: ‘And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.’ Of course, even seen from afar the route that led here was not always perfect and worthy of humankind, but the situation of the two genders is more just now than it was one hundred years ago. Given the warped, unjust gender relations of previous ages, today some men – particularly those who do not live in protective loving relationships – perceive increased equality as an alienating loss of prestige, while at the same time some women – of course, particularly those who do not live in protective loving relationships – still look on men as the enemy, or consider their new situation to be a depressing set of expectations. And this balance of power is tipping, even to the extremes, which makes it difficult to re-establish a healthy equilibrium.

The branch of feminism that is family-centric and not extremist (looking on men as not being the guilty party and something that has to be overcome) still has work to do: until the woman bringing up her children at home, or caring for elderly parents at home, does not receive equal moral and financial respect from society as a working father, we cannot be satisfied. While these family and social jobs are not shared between women and men, then many are never going to understand how valuable and important they are. While certain careers offer woman fewer opportunities and lower pay, we still have things to do.

At the same time, the feeling of disorientation of men is completely understandable because they are increasingly unable to live their inherited roles and they constantly have to adjust to new circumstances.

This leads to uncertainty and tension, which frequently contributes to the deterioration of relationships. To make matters worse, today there are already policies that favour women due to their disadvantages. For example, during a divorce the current legal practice is to assert an exaggerated advantage to women in the area of bringing up children. Then again, measures and treaties designed to reduce violence in relationships take virtually no notice of violence committed against men. Early retirement for women after 40 years of work is so discriminative that women themselves are sometimes ashamed. And it is inexplicable why we don’t deal with the serious situation signalled by the school dropout rate of men, their poorer state of health and earlier mortality than women. Men often look to women for a remedy to the situation while women also are constantly struggling with challenges. This is why well-intentioned men’s movements are to be welcomed.

Apparently, we men and women are not in an easy situation. In truth, however, we are the possessors of massive opportunities!

We stand on the threshold of an age when finally we can establish, as equal parties, with equality of opportunity, free choice and more psychological knowledge than ever before, responsible, lasting, joyous relationships, we can work together in workplaces, and we can participate in public life. Let’s not allow ourselves to become alienated towards each other due to frustrations deriving from the search for roles and occasional failures. There is no other way than patient understanding and providing mutual support to one another.

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Dániel Gryllus “In my life, the final forms have always been defined by human relationships”

27/03/2020
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Dani is one of those people with whom it is impossible not to sit down with and chat. He turns towards you with such natural pleasure and interest that it doesn’t even enter your mind to just nod to him, because once you have some sort of common matters, you suddenly find yourself in his great bee (in Hungarian, kaláka) as a full-right member. I have experienced this not only personally but together with Képmás, too, at the Versudvar (Poetry Courtyard) in Kapolcs, where he invited us two years ago. How could we then miss his 70th birthday? God bless you, Dániel Gryllus! And every member of the Kossuth Prize winning Kaláka!

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Gryllus Dániel
interview
birthday
Author
Kati Szám
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Are there birthdays that have been particularly memorable?

I remember, for example, the fiftieth, it was at Easter, a beautiful spring day, the whole family sat under the lime tree and there was some sort of heavenly peace. Then my sixtieth. We always have close family birthdays, but that time my son Samu decided to set my song cycle Towards Wholeness to music and they performed it. This was repeated on my seventieth. Childhood birthdays all merge into one. Then I remember that many times it was not easy to find the occasion when the children were young, primarily due to my travelling, and today it is even more complicated because we have to adjust to the schedules of the children.

Do these celebrations represent a moment for stocktaking, a special thanksgiving for you?

Thanksgiving and contemplation are not linked to birthdays; as I get older, I need them more and more.

I cannot break my life down into periods or milestones, nor in relation to Kaláka either, I just feel that everything developed and worked out naturally.

You don’t even remember the moment when you first felt that you had become a musician from being a uni student who played music? After all, this was not evident from the beginning.

It was far from evident, rather a swirling transition. I was in my second year when, in 1969, Kaláka was formed and rapidly the emphasis switched to music-making. We were invited to the TV, to the countryside and my teachers also valued this work. By the time I graduated we were a band travelling abroad and had already won a few minor awards. My meeting with my wife, Katalin Kőváry, is also connected with Kaláka, I met her when she was a theatre director, we had been invited to go there for a performance. We married in 1972. She also contributed a lot to our work, she gave us a new perspective with regard to stage presence and performance of poems.

Thus, gradually music, theatre and poetry rolled into my life. By the time I graduated, there was not even a faint chance of making a civil engineer out of me.

Are work and private life still difficult to separate in your family?

I still always take a little work with me even on vacation. After the 50th anniversary of Kaláka we travelled with my wife to Zanzibar, to the ‘paradise’ with perfect climate. A small island with great hotels and very nice, good people. Of course, even in the midst of complete relaxation, resting by the sea, swimming or reading, you think about future plans and new ideas are born, that are either realised or forgotten. We were truly lucky to also see a beautiful full moon. That always grabs me, but there, when it is over the sea, among the palm trees, it is even more magical.

Your children have since become closely associated with the stage, Dorka became an actress and Samu a composer. Does everyone bring their professional ideas to family gatherings, too?

None of us have a nine-to-five job. When the kids are here for Sunday lunch, music, performances, festivals and filming are woven into the occasion, as everyone shares their current projects with us all. But that doesn’t mean we only talk shop.

Do you have any memories of your children surprising you in some way when they were little?

Dorka was still quite young when I noticed how much she stood out in the choir. As a child, Samu surprised me with his honesty and trust.

For example, on a trip to Transylvania, at the Red Lake I told him that if we threw a coin into the water it would come back, like at the Trevi Fountain in Rome, and he trusted me so much that he took it literally. We threw the coin in and he waited for it to come back. That kind of unconditional trust touches a person.

Did they change you?

I feel like starting a family is so one-sided, but children definitely change a parent.

Do you think that, at 70 a person knows themselves better? Or do they have doubts?

I know myself to be an instinctive person, both in friendship and in finance, I listen to ideas...

Meaning that you're not a very speculative person in the first place, you don’t think about that a lot either?

Well that would not be completely true, I do have things that require a long thought process. For example I wrote the song Családi kör (Family Circle) over twenty years. The Tíz példázat (Ten Parables), the poems of Zolitán Sumonyi, which we’ll sing at the Castle Garden Bazaar in April, just came right.

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Dániel Gryllus - Photo: Tamás Páczai

Photo: Tamás Páczai

Can you tell me which is the trait or talent you are most grateful for?

For example, the fact that I am not very strict in business, I do not need my every single moment and action to be profitable. If we like a record, we release it and, if we happen to make a loss on it, then we will profit on the next one. If we apply for and don’t get funding, we create without it. I would feel bad if an important project didn't happen because of that. However, I have no inhibitions about it either, that is, I am not ashamed to announce at the concert that a record is available, I warmly recommend it because we made it for you, to make you happy, to have it! I don’t hide our light under a bushel, I display it. That was very much about business, but there are other aspects to it. If someone has something to offer, then give it, do it!

Amy Károlyi said a long time ago that, when we said we didn't want to write for the desk drawer, it didn't hurt to be able to pull out that desk drawer and have something in it for when you just have nothing else to show at that moment.

Of course, in my case, there may already be so much in there that it is impossible to realise throughout my lifetime. And in the meantime, the world has also changed a lot. Sándor Kányádi always said that you have to move to the internet, that in fact, there are almost no desk drawers anymore. Older people complain that people don't read poetry, while young people simply put them online and read them there, too. János Lackfi and I have now uploaded our song Himnusz az égi-földi kenyérről (Anthem on heavenly-earthly bread), which is available for everyone to listen to. The Lutheran Church made it the song of the Year of Holy Communion. We wrote it so that it could easily become a congregation song and I am glad that it is well received by the other denominations as well. Gábor Smidéliusz , my brother Vilmos  and I have already sung it during a radio broadcast service.

Are there any New Testament stories or parables that are harder for you to accept or understand?

Everything is multifaceted and I don't know of any situation that I would completely reject. Of course, there are uncertainties and doubts in everyone. Marcell Jankovics said that the believer and the atheist are not opposites, as the atheist is also a believer who believes that there is no God.

Doubt is the opposite of faith. At the same time, sometimes one can doubt even basic truths, because the whole story of Jesus is difficult to accept with common sense, Mary, too, was frightened and Joseph also had to be encouraged.

Man, for example, sometimes experiences resurrection only as a symbol, a projected image. How many are really able to embrace the Resurrection? Reason cannot, only faith can.

Did you ever try to explain that to your children?

Not me! They attended religious education classes. It is a great invention of the apostle Paul that we have a corruptible body here on earth and an incorruptible body, and that we should not confuse the two. He must have said that before reading the Gospel. That contrasts with the belief that Jesus was resurrected in an actual body and met with people. If that is another dimension, does it also apply to me? I think only faith or art can answer the really difficult questions.

I often remember that the name ’Kaláka’ is also the motto of your whole life. Family, friendship, community, profession and entertainment are inextricably intertwined, you ask and accept from everyone what they can give, and you are not miserly with what you have, either.

We can thank uncle Zoli, the grandfather of István Mikó for the Kaláka name. There was no other name to rival it. It truly contains work, fun, community, and folklore... In the beginning, when not everyone had their own more definite style, we often figured everything out together. Things still evolve in the community today, but we bring ideas in a much more mature form. In fact, it all consists of human relationships, those have defined the final forms in my life as well.

If we couldn’t laugh or have dinner with Kaláka, then nothing would be work. Bands don’t break up based on what chord you struck or what note you sang off key. Conceptual differences also collide very quickly and then they never come together. 

I am lucky. I can handle the publishing, the festivals, the organisation of the band, the independent initiatives (as, fortunately, everyone in Kaláka has independent works) and the biblical albums and it doesn’t cause me any tension. I really don't like arguing. Maybe it’s also related to my asthma because once or twice in the past, when I worked myself up, I started to gasp, so maybe that’s why I’m a very compromising person.

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Gryllus

Photo: Emmer László

That is not necessarily easy in the art world... there are those who are unwilling to perform together on the same stage or even at the same event.

It never gets that far with me, I'll tell you sooner if I have an issue. In my life, I may have ‘fallen out’ with two people. I must say I don’t have anyone who is displeased with me or, at least, I don’t know of anyone. At church, there is always too little time available for me to remember who I should forgive. The people I work with are also important human beings. I feel like they are part of our lives and it would be hard for me to turn someone away who is approaches me.

In Kapolcs, in the Valley of Arts, after pushing through the ten days in the Kaláka Poetry Centre, you always visit the surrounding programmes during the day or even in the evening. You make time for everyone if they stop you, and many do. How do you maintain your curiosity after a tiring festival day?

I'm interested. I don't have to convince myself. I monitor the events of the nearby Vera Harcsa, Muharay and Folk centres for example, but I also always go over to Taliándörögd to see the exhibitions. Just because it interests me to see how others do it differently. I feel that that openness is mutual. We have already given joint concerts with many of our artist friends. Unforgettable, is the surprise concert given for our 40th birthday, and now a joint concert with Budapest Bár and their soloists for the fiftieth. It caused me great joy this autumn when underground bands of musicians younger than our children surprised us with a record containing Kaláka adaptations, it is titled ‘De jó elhagyni magamat (It is good to let myself go)’.

How are you preparing for your seventieth birthday?

I am currently preparing for the Castle Garden Bazaar, where we will be performing the Teljesség felé (Towards completeness) concert with Márta Sebestyén, Ferenc Sebő, Miklós Both, Mókus, Bea Palya, Szilvia Bognár, Ági Szalóki, which we performed 10 years ago and which, according to the current status, is to be held on 26 April, as it has not yet been cancelled. Such a joint singing event is fantastic! Again, that is being organised by my son Samu, and will be the 13th performance.

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A deathcamp operated after 1945 in the area of today’s Bratislava – Film about the Ligetfalu massacre

27/03/2020
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Directors Dávid Géczy and Zoltán Udvardy have made a documentary film titled Genocide in Pozsonyligetfalu about the terrifying events that took place there. In the investigative work, survivors, relatives and researchers of the period reveal that from May 1945, that is, at a time of peace in Europe following the Second World War, Germans and Hungarians were deported and later on systematically murdered in a small settlement close to Bratislava. Today, this settlement forms part of the modern Slovak capital.

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Deathcamp after the Second World War

According to those persons involved in the film, from spring 1945 until approximately 1947, Petržalka (Pozsonyligetfalu or Ligetfalu) located on the administrative territory of today’s Bratislava housed a deathcamp where mass executions were carried out. Researchers say the perpetrators were members of the Czechoslovak army and their victims were German and Hungarian inhabitants evicted from the territory of the country. Furthermore, the operators of the deathcamp executed 90 Hungarian ‘levente’ (young, conscripted, and as such not volunteer soldiers) on their way back to Hungary from theatres of war or internment as prisoners of war. Moreover, German and Hungarian civilians travelling back home as refugees from lagers were dragged off their train and massacred near the town of Přerov that today is located in the territory of the Czech Republic. The film shows monuments erected to the victims and we hear from a Czech historian who took part in the excavation of sites of mass killings and was present at the reburial of victims he discovered.

“In the 1990s I met an elderly man who when young had been a captive of the Ligetfalu camp and only just survived imprisonment. In his last book ‘Fallen Angels’ published in 2017, the recently deceased Lajos Grendel, an author from the Slovakia uplands, writes of hearing the chatter of machine guns in the dawn at Ligetfalu,” says Zoltán Udvardy in relation to the choice of topic. It is worth noting here that in Europe, the Second World War came to an end on 8 May 1945, and only on 27 February 1946 was the treaty on the exchange of populations signed, on the basis of which tens of thousands of Hungarians were evicted – primarily in 1947 – from the only homeland they had ever known that had become part of the state of Czechoslovakia.

However, the film reveals that the removal of ‘undesirable’ Germans and Hungarians from the territory of the Czechoslovak state had started much earlier, without any kind of official sanction or settlement – at any cost.

Hungarian and German masses who perished

“I had never in my entire life heard of another genocide taking place after the Holocaust, but as we dug further into the story it became increasingly important to speak out,” Dávid Géczy, the co-director, notes as his motivation. “The fact-checking work cannot have been easy because historical material on the subject in Hungarian is simply not available. Teacher Géza Dunajszky and József Szabó, former diplomat working in the Hungarian embassy in Slovakia, were persistent in their research and publishing efforts on the subject. They, too, are included in the film. We learn from them that the existence of the camp can be proved beyond doubt, although when it comes to accurately detecting what happened – due to the lack or deliberate destruction of evidence – it is necessary to rely primarily on witness statements and newspaper articles from the period.”

“At least a year and a half of my research went into finding a family, several members of which were concerned with the events, because I didn’t want to do the film without the survivors having an opportunity to speak,” notes Zoltán Udvardy. “However, it is impossible to determine precisely how many Hungarians and Germans were murdered in total, although estimates suggest the number could be as high as 2500.

“They wanted to rid themselves of these two ethnic groups living in large numbers in Bratislava and the surroundings. Deportation awaited a significant proportion of Hungarian and German families from Bratislava.

“Some of the prisoners – overwhelmingly of German nationality – held in the Ligetfalu camp that was divided into various sections were shot in the ditches of the defensive system surrounding the camp. In 1947, Czechoslovak authorities came across a mass grave in these ditches when they were searching for the body of former secret financier of the partisans Ervin Bacusan, bank clerk, who had been taken from his apartment in Bratislava to the camp and executed there (they did not find his remains). One section of the lager had earlier functioned as the camp for forced labour Jewish prisoners and after the war Germans from Bratislava and settlements around the city were transported here, among other places. I would like to add that it is not guaranteed that those who ended up in the German camp were certainly ethnic Germans. For example, the elderly lady who spoke to me found herself, as a young girl, sent to the German camp along with her siblings, mother and father. The head of the family was German but his wife was Hungarian and they spoke exclusively Hungarian at home. Interestingly, Germans driven out of Bratislava and the surrounding area, and today living primarily in Austria, still keep in touch with each other to this day, although they had absolutely no idea that after their expulsion a deathcamp operated in their homeland.”

Swept under the carpet

The camp was at the same time the border crossing point so this is probably how the 90 Hungarian young recruits arrived here in the first place, who were then shot (with the exception of three who managed to escape). The Přerov massacre can also be closely associated with these murders. The unit of the 4th division of the 17th infantry battalion of the Czechoslovak army that also committed atrocities in the camp was moved by train from Prague to Bratislava, and in Přerov their transport happened to stop at the station right alongside a train carrying Hungarian and German civilians, including women and babies, back home. The conclusion of this ‘meeting’ was that the soldiers ordered all the passengers of the other train to get off at a small settlement close to Přerov. Everyone who had travelled on the train, including the Slovak railwaymen, were taken to a high point where they were shot into mass graves recently dug by residents of the nearby village of Horní Moštěnice (Ober Moschtienitz). A total of 267 people, 120 women, 72 men and 75 children, died.

How was it that the soldiers felt themselves entitled to commit this bloodbath? According to the filmmakers, it was because earlier they had listened to an inflammatory speech by Czechoslovak president Edvard Beneš calling for the creation of a pure Czechoslovak nation state.

“Our aim with the film, however, was not to arouse tensions between the countries but to promote reconciliation and facing up to the past,” says Dávid Géczy. “Sweeping these events under the carpet would be highly disrespectful to the victims. Hearing the recollections of survivors brought to mind my own grandfather who, although sadly I never met him in person, saved 110 people during the war and received a posthumous award for his actions. It was particularly upsetting that several of our elderly interview subjects and helpers died even in the course of filming, and we weren’t filming for long. It was sad to see that some of those who had still battled for this case, and for whom it had perhaps become something of a personal mission, could not have their last words in the film.”

Housing estate above mass graves

Zoltán Udvardy also says that he is aware of a fourth, related horror that in the end did not make it into the film. Eighty German residents of Svätý Jur (Pozsonyszentgyörgy), virtually all women, children and the elderly, being held in the Petržalka camp were shot and buried in a tank trap. For the sake of appearances, the German groups earmarked for execution were driven towards the Austrian border, they made them pack their valuables onto a truck and then everyone was shot. Here, Zoltán remembers that a suspected perpetrator was interviewed in an earlier documentary film about the Přerov mass murder. “It is unbelievable that such things could have happened, that crematoria can have started cremating the bodies of Germans and Hungarians in Přerov, in the centre of Europe, in Moravia, and what’s more, in 1947,” says the director shaking his head.

 

It is as though the location of the camp and defensive system near Petržalka had been sown with salt afterwards: one of Central Europe’s largest housing estates has been built there. They have built tower blocks and roads on the site of the former settlement and on mass graves.

The term for the events examined by the film is also reflected in its title, ‘genocide’, which according to its definition can mean not only the physical annihilation of everyone but also changing the identity of a community by force. Well, right up until the final days of the war, Bratislava was populated by four nationalities, but in the capital that has by now become Slovak-speaking people speak virtually no Hungarian or German (and not even Czech). The forcibly evicted Hungarians and Germans could never return to their homes in Bratislava and the surrounding area, but that was just the better case if they couldn’t because they had been driven to the other side of the border with their families. The worst-case scenario was if they perished in the Ligetfalu lager where executions were carried out that claimed the lives of an uncounted number of victims.

The documentary film ‘Genocide in Pozsonyligetfalu’ will be screened at film festivals next year.

Researcher facing a headwind
We were greatly assisted in writing this article by József Szabó, an expert on the subject, who is writing a book on the events that is expected to be published shortly, perhaps even this year.
“The topic actually found me: I was working in the diplomatic corps in Bratislava when I wanted to organize a commemoration for the victims, but it turned out that they didn’t even have their own memorial marker let alone researched literature. Since then, a memorial stone has been erected while I started to research the topic,” the expert notes. “It is not easy because my propositions run counter to the Czech approach to history and Czech public opinion is incapable of accepting that their predecessors could have been capable of such heinous acts. Of course, it is entirely understandable that after the communist takeover in 1948 it was in nobody’s interest to go looking into these events since the vast majority of organizers and perpetrators of these murders can be identified as members of the then communist party. Interestingly, with the exception of a few representatives, the Slovak political leadership, which enjoyed a measure of autonomy in the period under review, were not so radical in their approach to the Hungarians and Germans as were the Czechs. The former did not think in terms of physical annihilation and the marking of German residents with the letter D and a swastika, along the lines of the Jewish yellow star, as opposed to the latter.”

 

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“As far as I am concerned, there are no ‘lesser’ dead and ‘greater’ dead, there are only people” – Interview with forensic anthropologist Dr. Éva Susa

13/03/2020
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The work of forensic pathologist Dr. Éva Susa has given more than 100 families the opportunity of closure in a worthy manner for their relatives who were executed during the Rákosi and Kádár dictatorship or who died in prison and were buried in unmarked graves. However, her name is associated not only with relatively recent political victims but also with the excavation of the mummies found in Vác and identification of bodies in the Kálvin Square and Máriabesnyő Grassalkovich crypt. 

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How does somebody become a forensic anthropologist?
“In my case, this was far from being a planned decision, I became this almost by accident. In Hungary, there is a course in cultural anthropology; physical anthropologists dealing with the physical characteristics of the human body are trained at ELTE university. I wanted to be a teacher so my basic qualification is as a secondary school teacher specialized in biology and chemistry. At that time, there were extremely knowledgeable teachers at the natural sciences faculty of ELTE, we received an excellent grounding, we were taught to think scientifically besides getting a very thorough knowledge of the core subjects.

“I became involved with anthropology at university, I wrote my thesis on twin research at the Anthropology Department of ELTE. After graduating, I taught biology at a primary school for a short while, then I received the call: the Hungarian Institute for Forensic Sciences in Budapest was looking for an anthropologist. In 1975, I started to work here, where I was dealing with examinations to establish parentage. At that time DNA testing did not exist, thus blood group examinations and so-called physical anthropology tests were carried out on the mother, the child, and the presumed fathers. In 2002, I was appointed director of the forensics system and I ran this institute until my retirement in 2016.”

When were you first involved with Hungarian history as a forensic expert?
“1989 was a turning point in my life, too. Rumours that there would be exhumations started going around in our institute at the beginning of the year. The then Ministry of Justice initiated the establishment of a research group comprising an archaeologist, anthropologist, and forensic doctors. Preparations got underway in an extremely closed environment.

“I recently wrote a detailed book on the exhumations themselves and the work of my colleagues titled Megkésett végtisztesség (Belated Obsequies), which was published on the 60th anniversary of the 1956 Revolution.”

What did plot 301 look like in 1989?
“It was overgrown with grass, trees, and flowers. I wrote the following in the blurb to my book: ‘Forensic experts had put their hands into a wasps’ nest when they launched their investigatory works.’ The secret dossier that made it possible to identify the location of the burial places of Imre Nagy and his fellow martyrs was called the Wasps’ Nest.”

Did your field of research radically change after the exhumation of Imre Nagy?
“Yes. My name is not included in the research group conducting the exhumation of Imre Nagy, however, I actively participated in it as a member of staff of the Hungarian Institute for Forensic Sciences. After the reinterment, a second exhumation committee was set up under my direction. Since we received masses of exhumation requests from relatives and the government wanted to fulfill these calls, it was my job to organize the funerary-archaeology excavations and forensic identification of bodies. During this period, we uncovered countless remains, identified them, passed them across to the relatives, who then had them reburied respectfully.”

In other words, the work that is still going on today actually started 30 years ago?
“Thirty years ago, when we began this work, it was like looking for a needle in a haystack. There was no detailed, complete burial declaration about plots 298 and 301, there were no marked graves, just a giant tangled mess. Understandably, there was no record of the system of burials for posterity although today, based on empirical experience of the past 30 years, we know where people were buried in which period. When work started, even this was not known.

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Dr. Susa Éva
Éva Susa

“Relatives’ inquiries always pertain to just a single person but the data show correlations. This is why we have collected together a vast amount of information over the years: the existing datasets of the two plots, prison records, we collected all certificates of death from the period where there was a penitentiary institution or an institution belonging to a state security authority. But we were also in Vác, Recsk and Márianosztra. By now our database contains more than 3000 persons.

“They are the men and women who died in prison conditions between 1945 and 1962 – they may have been political prisoners or common criminals – and their place of burial was plot 298 or 301.  

“From all this, a database is being established that will contain the datasets – grave by grave – showing the following: who lies there, what we know of the person, where and how he/she died. This is a huge amount of work but there is nobody else in the position to compile it: nobody has as much empirical experience. I am in retirement yet together with my research partner Mária Molnos, who is at the same time my co-author, we have been given an office in the Committee of National Remembrance building, which is the perfect place for synthesizing this work of the past 30 years. Although it is not possible to finish this work because one never knows what else will come up.”

One wall of the office is completely taken up with a map of plots 298–301. What systemization was applied when it came to burying the dead during communism?
“Rákoskeresztúr New Public Cemetery has 301 plots. On the wall, you can see a reconstruction by grave of plots 298 and 301. It is important to know that the wooden markers in the plots do not designate real graves but rather are commemorative policy, visual symbols because there has still not been a full exploration of the two plots. Plot 298 contains the remains of those who died under prison conditions from late 1944 right up to December 1951. The plot started to be used from both ends working inwards, and the two rows met in 1951. The composition of the people interred in this area is extremely mixed. It contains the graves of those who were condemned to death as war criminals in people’s trials. Then victims of the communist dictatorship can also be found here until 1951. Aside from this, the plot was also the burial place of paupers.

This plot was filled by the winter of 1951 and then they started using the adjacent plot 301 where, starting from row 5 of the plot area we know today, they started burying people outwards towards plot 298.

“In the public mind, plot 301 is associated with those executed as reprisals after the 1956 Revolution but this is not a totally accurate picture because this plot was already being used before 1956.”

How many graves are there in the two plots?
“In total, 2155 based on the reconstructed graves. However, quite frequently several bodies lie in a single grave. I mentioned that according to our database it can be presumed that more than 3000 people are actually buried here. But one can also find here the remains of animals used in experiments, body parts after autopsies, and even embryos.”

The communist state apparatus did everything it could to leave as little data as possible about the deceased. What is it that helps in your research and what hinders you?
“At the time of the change of regime, it would have been necessary to conduct a geodesic survey of the cemetery, at that time the earth was still heaped up over the pits and research would have been easier, but unfortunately it did not happen. Since then the surface of the cemetery has been landscaped several times so the surface changed and those parameters that could have assisted the experts disappeared. In 2003, I had a geodesic survey conducted and we still use it to this day. In the life of a researcher, material that may move the work forward can always crop up. Reports had to be drafted continuously in the dictatorship as well, and these reports are of enormous assistance in our work.

“For example, guard reports of prison wardens written by hand and although the style and grammar may be poor, they do represent valuable historical contributions because they give guidance towards successful investigations. Victims could not just be disappeared, ‘losses’ and ‘growths’ were precisely recorded in prisons.

“For example, there is a warden diary that details that the vehicle for transporting corpses took three bodies away at 5.30 on 14 January 1953; Hubay, Meszlényi, Biedermann. So in all likelihood, they were buried together, meaning that a grave from the period should be sought which contains the bones of three people.

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“The fact that we have already excavated in many places is also a great help. We have experience about what sort of remains there are in the graves we have opened up. Besides this, those who carried out the burials also have recollections and testimonies that nuance the picture. Those identifications that didn’t lead to a result also help because even if we didn’t find the person we were looking for, but instead we found an as yet unidentified person, we will work on the identification here, too. This is meticulous work, a sort of puzzle.”

How many bodies have been exhumed so far and how many have been identified?

“There were several hundred exhumations and we found more than 100 people and returned their remains to relatives. Our latest achievement was the exhumation and identification of the earthly remains of the beatified Salesian monk István Sándor in the summer of 2019.

“For a DNA-grade identification, we successfully used a saliva sample left on an envelope dating from 1950 that can be associated with the monk. At the same time, we were not successful in our search for the remains of Imre Biedermann similarly in summer 2019. However, we have identified numerous renowned individuals over the past 30 years: Péter Mansfeld, Pál Maléter, József Dudás. From a professional point of view, it was a great experience to find flight lieutenant Lajos Tóth, alias Drumi. The airman was ranked as an ace and in his military file, it was noted that although he was professionally good, he was not ‘reliable’. He was exploited by being made to train new flight recruits but then sentenced to death on the charge of spying in 1951 and he was buried anonymously. But we have carried out funerary-archaeology excavations in the New Public Cemetery and the prisoner cemetery in Vác. Here, we had an even more difficult job because we had less data than in the case of the abovementioned plots. That is why the identification of the earthly remains of Bálint Hóman was a great success.”

What is it like emotionally coming up against such troubled fates and stories day after day?
“This is difficult work, physically as well, because you have to go down into the graves and then come up. At the same time, this work has brought me many human relationships and data. Every grave has a story or several stories. I have met dozens of relatives and it is a great thing to return their deceased, making it possible for them to pay tribute and say farewell in a worthy setting.

“As far as I am concerned, there are no ‘lesser’ dead and ‘greater’ dead, there are only people. I am an anthropologist, not a historian, and I don’t have to categorize them.

“Even a common criminal deserves a funeral, he/she also has a family. An unmarked grave is unworthy and burial in a mass grave is undeserving of man.”

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Kati Szám: “It is impossible to untangle whether Képmás changed us or we changed Képmás”

03/03/2020
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For 15 years, Kati Szám has been editor in chief of the magazine Képmás, which through its unique content, refined style and traditional European system of values has already introduced several generations of readers to life principles and role models. For four years I have shared in the delights and difficulties of working in partnership with Kati yet when making this interview, I was still surprised by some of her hidden thoughts and traits.

Indention
Public
Tag
Képmás magazin
interview
Author
Lívia Kölnei
Body

In your book Családi karikatúrák (Family Caricatures) you compiled short stories about your own family, which were published in Képmás. These reveal that you make use of sarcastic humour to resolve conflicts or make them tolerable.
“Yes, that is typical of me, but I have also realized that you have to be careful with humour: each person’s sense of humour is different, so it can happen that what I intended as jolly badinage others might feel offended by. These days I am more careful with comments I intended to be light-hearted.”

Have your children read Family Caricatures that is about them?
“Of course. My older daughter even demanded to know why I had written that nobody at home wants to take the bin out. This was when I stopped these family stories because in their teens, the time of writing and the current time are too closely associated for them. It doesn’t bother them what I wrote when they were three years old, but at 13, that is a different story. Later on, my daughter did say I shouldn’t have given up because of this.” (laughs)

What qualities that have helped you in life did you inherent from your parents?
“My father became a doctor in line with the expectations of his family, but besides this he dug deep – as a self-taught person – into many different areas that he was truly interested in: history and languages; he learnt, for example, Finnish, and he managed to develop his understanding of Armenian to such fluency that he translated old texts and built up a dictionary. He learnt to read music and play the piano by himself. This kind of curiosity and interest, that cost him so much sacrifice, taught me, I think, never to be satisfied with good enough. I inherited a sanguine outlook from my mother, a mathematician and programmer; she always endeavoured to overcome difficulties with humour. She loved being the centre of attention and she always had an idea for everything; she endeared herself in the family and at work with constant surprises. And both wrote poetry, pretty good stuff, too. I haven’t tried that but I have inherited a love of literature and the desire to write.”

You got married in your twenties. What did your husband change and shape in you?
“I acquired a lot of self-confidence from him, or rather, from how he saw me.

“In a good relationship, we see ourselves as mirrored in the eyes of the person who truly loves us.

“He always believed in and trusted me. If he hadn’t encouraged me, I would never have applied to university after college, and I wouldn’t have gone to the school of journalism.”

How have your three children helped or hindered your development as a human being?
“The children are miracles! Once one bears responsibility for somebody, decisions become so much clearer because everything falls into its own order of importance. Thanks to my children I have been a part of so many things that otherwise would never have happened, and I have been able to benefit greatly from these experiences in my work as a journalist as well.”

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Szám Kati
Photo: Tamás Páczai

Did you succeed in harmonizing the rearing of children with learning and earning a living? Wasn’t there ever a time when you had to make big compromises?
“After completing the Hungarian-history faculty at the teacher training college I taught as a teacher for six months, in the meantime I married and afterwards our first child was born. In the same month I applied to the humanities faculty at Pécs university where I graduated from the Hungarian department. I had to bring the state exam forward a little bit because this is when my second daughter was born. I started the journalism course after the birth of my son. The fact that I studied while being at home with the children, and then later wrote articles for journals as a freelancer, worked very well for me. When my children started going to school I looked for a permanent job and this is how I ended up at Képmás. In fact, I had already written for the magazine earlier while freelancing. Looking back on it, everything proceeded very smoothly.

“In general, I don’t express my wishes, most probably because of a fear of being disappointed, yet in retrospect I can say that all my unspoken desires were fulfilled.”

Didn’t you ever feel that you couldn’t bear the home-work duality?
“Of course I did! All the time. When I started working an eight-hour day again it was no longer a little refreshing intellectual pursuit like when I was freelancing. My conscience was permanently troubled by the feeling that perhaps I shouldn’t be where I was. One evening I had to stay in the editorial office until late and on the way home I waited quarter of an hour at the stop, there was a heatwave, the tram didn’t arrive, I felt I could hardly stand and there was a buzzing in my ears. I knew that I still had to wash the gym gear of one of the children for the following day, then I had to do shopping for the other because of a school excursion… An ambulance raced past me with its siren blaring and it crossed my mind: if I collapsed now and the ambulance took me away, how could things be arranged for the next day without me? And that is when I heard a voice in my head: ‘If I give a task, I give time for it as well.’

“Of course, I should have known by using my brain that if I believe in God, I also have to believe that I will live as long as I have work to do, but even so this sentence came to me out of the blue.

“I remember that I was profoundly calmed by this awareness and I had occasion to repeat this sentence later on as well. Now I can almost see in front of me the faces of certain readers: ‘Well, she’s hearing voices, she really believes that almighty God spoke to her!...” (laughs) But which is the greater temptation: to believe this, or not to believe?”

When you joined Képmás as an editor, it was still a parish-initiated fresh journal but with great, nationwide ambitions.
“It was founded in 2002 by father Mátyás Illéssy, who was parish priest of Solymár at the time. I joined as an editor only in 2003, and I have been editor in chief since 2005. Naturally, at the Komlósi Teaching Studio I didn’t learn anything whatsoever about what a magazine espousing Christian values is.

“I had to reconcile the professional standards and openness towards the world that I had learnt there with a definite set of values that I certainly did not want to overstep.

“Together with my co-editor Kati Zalka we resolved this apparent contradiction. Together we sought out this untrodden and narrow path. Képmás also moved along with our own search. Every single member of the then small editorial office desired, and worked for, a modern media product communicating values we considered important. By now it is impossible to untangle whether Képmás changed us or we changed Képmás.”

Image
Szám Kati
Photo: Tamás Páczai

It feels good to pick up the magazine because it is as though it is the joint work of art of several people, and its design is a true aesthetic experience. It could have been a cultural magazine yet it didn’t develop in this direction.
“I don’t think it is the task of a magazine to serve the demands of a narrow segment with refined tastes but rather it has to reach a wider audience. If something doesn’t work, it embitters everybody’s life and a magazine can help on several levels to make the quality of life better: healthcare tips, psychological advice, including faith elements, good leisure programmes and quality literature. Let’s be slightly better people. Better parents, partners, friends, children. As far as I am concerned, this is the motto of our profession and life as a whole. As editor in chief, I believe that everything that helps this is a good topic. And as far as joint work goes, it is like a ‘stone soup’. The stone brings the ingredients together, a few important things are written on it, we can call it brand or professional, human creed, but the taste and the content of the soup is given by everything that is subsequently added by everybody. By those who believe in Képmás. Staff members and readers.”

The topic of most articles is related to the family. Why is family so much in the centre?
“The family is the foundation of all human communities. We are born into it, we are accepted in a good family, we accept and also we are in need of what we receive in the family. This is where we learn almost everything about human relationships, and our relatives help us as mirrors to better learn about ourselves. It is important what this environment is like.

“One not only has to tolerate the family like an uncomfortable armchair in the room, but it is possible and worth making it even more valuable.

“Media products can help enormously in this, at the level of prevention and preparation, with sensitization and giving good examples. An instructive story or a good sentence can spark a positive chain reaction in the soul.”

Is this why you and your colleagues founded the Media for the Family Prize, which honours journalists writing positively and constructively about the family?
“The expression ‘positively’ can be misleading, it does not only mean writing about good things, but it is done so as not to ruin family values. When the prize was founded, we frequently came across media features presenting the family in a destructive way: that divorce is fashionable, having children is an obstacle to development, and one has to flee from a relationship that is malfunctioning. On entering the search word ‘family’ in the browser, it sometimes happened that the first hit was about ‘violence within the family’.

“Reality sacrificed on the altar of readership and viewership shows sensation and scandal, and implies that this is standard. In order to counter this, we wanted to support those journalists capable of showing the protective, healing and positive side of the family.

“We set up the Media for the Family Foundation and the professional prize today worth HUF 1 million in order to encourage these articles. Right from the very beginning, we managed to get many excellent journalists and experts to join the jury, for example, Professor Mária Kopp, Dr. Petra Aczél and Ilona Keresztes, who are all still jury members.”

Were you deliberately trying to refute stereotypes, for example, that women’s attention cannot be occupied by serious topics, only fashion and household tips, that a magazine cannot be sold without light romantic and tabloid stories?
“Yes, but perhaps today this does not even need refuting. Moreover, since then we have also changed a bit. We now speak to both women and men because it is similarly prejudice if we say that ‘magazine topics’ are only of interest to women. After all, topics like how to stay healthy, how the environment can be protected for our children, how we can learn more about the world and how we can live in a better relationship are all of importance for men as well.”

Image
Szám Kati
Photo: Tamás Páczai

What do you think of those criticisms that Képmás is not sufficiently aggressively public affairs-oriented and that it being addressed to ‘women and men’ is not trendy enough?
“Sometimes we deal with not exactly heart-warming yet still important topics. For example, with disadvantaged regions, sad social phenomena, fate and serious ethical issues. Although we would like to present the beauty of life, it is also the task of a good magazine to give those of us who are in a luckier position some insight into those difficulties we do not experience in our own personal life. We cannot stand aloof from these. Actually, the addressing can also be militant because it means that God created man and woman in His own image. We dare to state this as well. And this means that on the basis of a certain type of conservative feminism, we consider man and woman to be of equal status but not identical, and comprehended in their entirety only when together. I wouldn’t want to buy white wine with a red wine label.

“Nor do we sell anything other than what we advertise on the cover page: ‘Képmás, for women and men’.”

How and why did the Képmás evenings start? How did the two-person conversation grow into a synthesis of the arts evening attracting an audience of several hundred?
“The first staff member of Képmás, András Urbán, always wanted us to meet our readers in person and create a community. We held the first conversation in the grand hall of Szent Margit Grammar School after screening the opera film Bánk bán. This was followed by a successful series with celebrity presenters, but after a time it died out due to lack of interest. We relaunched this as themed evenings four or five years ago, purely from Képmás resources, generally I was the compere but sometimes my colleagues did their bit, you included. After 18 months, I felt that this conversation choreography was not sufficient for people to dedicate a weekday evening after work.

“Everybody wishes for catharsis, an artistic experience and entertainment. I had the idea of linking the talks with artistic productions, dance, music, literature, theatre and film.

“Not necessarily as the topic of conversation but in order to be inspired by it. A good magazine is not only a data supplier, a forum providing tips, but art should also have a place in it.”

When you are writing or editing the magazine, can you visualize the ideal reader?
“I think that while editing, I primarily visualize those people with whom I could have a good chat. However, when the magazine is published, I always try to look through it with the eyes of a ‘more critical outside observer’, I ponder on what a person very different to me would make of this or that article. If I did this when editing, it is possible that nothing would ever pass through the filter. (laughs) They normally put out Képmás at the Salesian Chapel I attend on Sunday. When entering, I genuflect and my gaze falls on the magazines and – it is unbelievable for me as well – it is as if all one hundred pages pass before my eyes. Can I stand in front of God with the content of these one hundred pages? Of course, it’s no bad thing if I quickly finish flicking through the pages because this is not what I came for, after all.”

 

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