Deathcamp after the Second World War

According to those persons involved in the film, from spring 1945 until approximately 1947, Petržalka (Pozsonyligetfalu or Ligetfalu) located on the administrative territory of today’s Bratislava housed a deathcamp where mass executions were carried out. Researchers say the perpetrators were members of the Czechoslovak army and their victims were German and Hungarian inhabitants evicted from the territory of the country. Furthermore, the operators of the deathcamp executed 90 Hungarian ‘levente’ (young, conscripted, and as such not volunteer soldiers) on their way back to Hungary from theatres of war or internment as prisoners of war. Moreover, German and Hungarian civilians travelling back home as refugees from lagers were dragged off their train and massacred near the town of Přerov that today is located in the territory of the Czech Republic. The film shows monuments erected to the victims and we hear from a Czech historian who took part in the excavation of sites of mass killings and was present at the reburial of victims he discovered.

“In the 1990s I met an elderly man who when young had been a captive of the Ligetfalu camp and only just survived imprisonment. In his last book ‘Fallen Angels’ published in 2017, the recently deceased Lajos Grendel, an author from the Slovakia uplands, writes of hearing the chatter of machine guns in the dawn at Ligetfalu,” says Zoltán Udvardy in relation to the choice of topic. It is worth noting here that in Europe, the Second World War came to an end on 8 May 1945, and only on 27 February 1946 was the treaty on the exchange of populations signed, on the basis of which tens of thousands of Hungarians were evicted – primarily in 1947 – from the only homeland they had ever known that had become part of the state of Czechoslovakia.

However, the film reveals that the removal of ‘undesirable’ Germans and Hungarians from the territory of the Czechoslovak state had started much earlier, without any kind of official sanction or settlement – at any cost.

Hungarian and German masses who perished

“I had never in my entire life heard of another genocide taking place after the Holocaust, but as we dug further into the story it became increasingly important to speak out,” Dávid Géczy, the co-director, notes as his motivation. “The fact-checking work cannot have been easy because historical material on the subject in Hungarian is simply not available. Teacher Géza Dunajszky and József Szabó, former diplomat working in the Hungarian embassy in Slovakia, were persistent in their research and publishing efforts on the subject. They, too, are included in the film. We learn from them that the existence of the camp can be proved beyond doubt, although when it comes to accurately detecting what happened – due to the lack or deliberate destruction of evidence – it is necessary to rely primarily on witness statements and newspaper articles from the period.”

“At least a year and a half of my research went into finding a family, several members of which were concerned with the events, because I didn’t want to do the film without the survivors having an opportunity to speak,” notes Zoltán Udvardy. “However, it is impossible to determine precisely how many Hungarians and Germans were murdered in total, although estimates suggest the number could be as high as 2500.

“They wanted to rid themselves of these two ethnic groups living in large numbers in Bratislava and the surroundings. Deportation awaited a significant proportion of Hungarian and German families from Bratislava.

“Some of the prisoners – overwhelmingly of German nationality – held in the Ligetfalu camp that was divided into various sections were shot in the ditches of the defensive system surrounding the camp. In 1947, Czechoslovak authorities came across a mass grave in these ditches when they were searching for the body of former secret financier of the partisans Ervin Bacusan, bank clerk, who had been taken from his apartment in Bratislava to the camp and executed there (they did not find his remains). One section of the lager had earlier functioned as the camp for forced labour Jewish prisoners and after the war Germans from Bratislava and settlements around the city were transported here, among other places. I would like to add that it is not guaranteed that those who ended up in the German camp were certainly ethnic Germans. For example, the elderly lady who spoke to me found herself, as a young girl, sent to the German camp along with her siblings, mother and father. The head of the family was German but his wife was Hungarian and they spoke exclusively Hungarian at home. Interestingly, Germans driven out of Bratislava and the surrounding area, and today living primarily in Austria, still keep in touch with each other to this day, although they had absolutely no idea that after their expulsion a deathcamp operated in their homeland.”

Swept under the carpet

The camp was at the same time the border crossing point so this is probably how the 90 Hungarian young recruits arrived here in the first place, who were then shot (with the exception of three who managed to escape). The Přerov massacre can also be closely associated with these murders. The unit of the 4th division of the 17th infantry battalion of the Czechoslovak army that also committed atrocities in the camp was moved by train from Prague to Bratislava, and in Přerov their transport happened to stop at the station right alongside a train carrying Hungarian and German civilians, including women and babies, back home. The conclusion of this ‘meeting’ was that the soldiers ordered all the passengers of the other train to get off at a small settlement close to Přerov. Everyone who had travelled on the train, including the Slovak railwaymen, were taken to a high point where they were shot into mass graves recently dug by residents of the nearby village of Horní Moštěnice (Ober Moschtienitz). A total of 267 people, 120 women, 72 men and 75 children, died.

How was it that the soldiers felt themselves entitled to commit this bloodbath? According to the filmmakers, it was because earlier they had listened to an inflammatory speech by Czechoslovak president Edvard Beneš calling for the creation of a pure Czechoslovak nation state.

“Our aim with the film, however, was not to arouse tensions between the countries but to promote reconciliation and facing up to the past,” says Dávid Géczy. “Sweeping these events under the carpet would be highly disrespectful to the victims. Hearing the recollections of survivors brought to mind my own grandfather who, although sadly I never met him in person, saved 110 people during the war and received a posthumous award for his actions. It was particularly upsetting that several of our elderly interview subjects and helpers died even in the course of filming, and we weren’t filming for long. It was sad to see that some of those who had still battled for this case, and for whom it had perhaps become something of a personal mission, could not have their last words in the film.”

Housing estate above mass graves

Zoltán Udvardy also says that he is aware of a fourth, related horror that in the end did not make it into the film. Eighty German residents of Svätý Jur (Pozsonyszentgyörgy), virtually all women, children and the elderly, being held in the Petržalka camp were shot and buried in a tank trap. For the sake of appearances, the German groups earmarked for execution were driven towards the Austrian border, they made them pack their valuables onto a truck and then everyone was shot. Here, Zoltán remembers that a suspected perpetrator was interviewed in an earlier documentary film about the Přerov mass murder. “It is unbelievable that such things could have happened, that crematoria can have started cremating the bodies of Germans and Hungarians in Přerov, in the centre of Europe, in Moravia, and what’s more, in 1947,” says the director shaking his head.

It is as though the location of the camp and defensive system near Petržalka had been sown with salt afterwards: one of Central Europe’s largest housing estates has been built there. They have built tower blocks and roads on the site of the former settlement and on mass graves.

The term for the events examined by the film is also reflected in its title, ‘genocide’, which according to its definition can mean not only the physical annihilation of everyone but also changing the identity of a community by force. Well, right up until the final days of the war, Bratislava was populated by four nationalities, but in the capital that has by now become Slovak-speaking people speak virtually no Hungarian or German (and not even Czech). The forcibly evicted Hungarians and Germans could never return to their homes in Bratislava and the surrounding area, but that was just the better case if they couldn’t because they had been driven to the other side of the border with their families. The worst-case scenario was if they perished in the Ligetfalu lager where executions were carried out that claimed the lives of an uncounted number of victims.

The documentary film ‘Genocide in Pozsonyligetfalu’ will be screened at film festivals next year.

How does somebody become a forensic anthropologist?
“In my case, this was far from being a planned decision, I became this almost by accident. In Hungary, there is a course in cultural anthropology; physical anthropologists dealing with the physical characteristics of the human body are trained at ELTE university. I wanted to be a teacher so my basic qualification is as a secondary school teacher specialized in biology and chemistry. At that time, there were extremely knowledgeable teachers at the natural sciences faculty of ELTE, we received an excellent grounding, we were taught to think scientifically besides getting a very thorough knowledge of the core subjects.

“I became involved with anthropology at university, I wrote my thesis on twin research at the Anthropology Department of ELTE. After graduating, I taught biology at a primary school for a short while, then I received the call: the Hungarian Institute for Forensic Sciences in Budapest was looking for an anthropologist. In 1975, I started to work here, where I was dealing with examinations to establish parentage. At that time DNA testing did not exist, thus blood group examinations and so-called physical anthropology tests were carried out on the mother, the child, and the presumed fathers. In 2002, I was appointed director of the forensics system and I ran this institute until my retirement in 2016.”

When were you first involved with Hungarian history as a forensic expert?
“1989 was a turning point in my life, too. Rumours that there would be exhumations started going around in our institute at the beginning of the year. The then Ministry of Justice initiated the establishment of a research group comprising an archaeologist, anthropologist, and forensic doctors. Preparations got underway in an extremely closed environment.

“I recently wrote a detailed book on the exhumations themselves and the work of my colleagues titled Megkésett végtisztesség (Belated Obsequies), which was published on the 60th anniversary of the 1956 Revolution.”

What did plot 301 look like in 1989?
“It was overgrown with grass, trees, and flowers. I wrote the following in the blurb to my book: ‘Forensic experts had put their hands into a wasps’ nest when they launched their investigatory works.’ The secret dossier that made it possible to identify the location of the burial places of Imre Nagy and his fellow martyrs was called the Wasps’ Nest.”

Did your field of research radically change after the exhumation of Imre Nagy?
“Yes. My name is not included in the research group conducting the exhumation of Imre Nagy, however, I actively participated in it as a member of staff of the Hungarian Institute for Forensic Sciences. After the reinterment, a second exhumation committee was set up under my direction. Since we received masses of exhumation requests from relatives and the government wanted to fulfill these calls, it was my job to organize the funerary-archaeology excavations and forensic identification of bodies. During this period, we uncovered countless remains, identified them, passed them across to the relatives, who then had them reburied respectfully.”

In other words, the work that is still going on today actually started 30 years ago?
“Thirty years ago, when we began this work, it was like looking for a needle in a haystack. There was no detailed, complete burial declaration about plots 298 and 301, there were no marked graves, just a giant tangled mess. Understandably, there was no record of the system of burials for posterity although today, based on empirical experience of the past 30 years, we know where people were buried in which period. When work started, even this was not known.

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Éva Susa

“Relatives’ inquiries always pertain to just a single person but the data show correlations. This is why we have collected together a vast amount of information over the years: the existing datasets of the two plots, prison records, we collected all certificates of death from the period where there was a penitentiary institution or an institution belonging to a state security authority. But we were also in Vác, Recsk and Márianosztra. By now our database contains more than 3000 persons.

“They are the men and women who died in prison conditions between 1945 and 1962 – they may have been political prisoners or common criminals – and their place of burial was plot 298 or 301.  

“From all this, a database is being established that will contain the datasets – grave by grave – showing the following: who lies there, what we know of the person, where and how he/she died. This is a huge amount of work but there is nobody else in the position to compile it: nobody has as much empirical experience. I am in retirement yet together with my research partner Mária Molnos, who is at the same time my co-author, we have been given an office in the Committee of National Remembrance building, which is the perfect place for synthesizing this work of the past 30 years. Although it is not possible to finish this work because one never knows what else will come up.”

One wall of the office is completely taken up with a map of plots 298–301. What systemization was applied when it came to burying the dead during communism?
“Rákoskeresztúr New Public Cemetery has 301 plots. On the wall, you can see a reconstruction by grave of plots 298 and 301. It is important to know that the wooden markers in the plots do not designate real graves but rather are commemorative policy, visual symbols because there has still not been a full exploration of the two plots. Plot 298 contains the remains of those who died under prison conditions from late 1944 right up to December 1951. The plot started to be used from both ends working inwards, and the two rows met in 1951. The composition of the people interred in this area is extremely mixed. It contains the graves of those who were condemned to death as war criminals in people’s trials. Then victims of the communist dictatorship can also be found here until 1951. Aside from this, the plot was also the burial place of paupers.

This plot was filled by the winter of 1951 and then they started using the adjacent plot 301 where, starting from row 5 of the plot area we know today, they started burying people outwards towards plot 298.

“In the public mind, plot 301 is associated with those executed as reprisals after the 1956 Revolution but this is not a totally accurate picture because this plot was already being used before 1956.”

How many graves are there in the two plots?
“In total, 2155 based on the reconstructed graves. However, quite frequently several bodies lie in a single grave. I mentioned that according to our database it can be presumed that more than 3000 people are actually buried here. But one can also find here the remains of animals used in experiments, body parts after autopsies, and even embryos.”

The communist state apparatus did everything it could to leave as little data as possible about the deceased. What is it that helps in your research and what hinders you?
“At the time of the change of regime, it would have been necessary to conduct a geodesic survey of the cemetery, at that time the earth was still heaped up over the pits and research would have been easier, but unfortunately it did not happen. Since then the surface of the cemetery has been landscaped several times so the surface changed and those parameters that could have assisted the experts disappeared. In 2003, I had a geodesic survey conducted and we still use it to this day. In the life of a researcher, material that may move the work forward can always crop up. Reports had to be drafted continuously in the dictatorship as well, and these reports are of enormous assistance in our work.

“For example, guard reports of prison wardens written by hand and although the style and grammar may be poor, they do represent valuable historical contributions because they give guidance towards successful investigations. Victims could not just be disappeared, ‘losses’ and ‘growths’ were precisely recorded in prisons.

“For example, there is a warden diary that details that the vehicle for transporting corpses took three bodies away at 5.30 on 14 January 1953; Hubay, Meszlényi, Biedermann. So in all likelihood, they were buried together, meaning that a grave from the period should be sought which contains the bones of three people.

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“The fact that we have already excavated in many places is also a great help. We have experience about what sort of remains there are in the graves we have opened up. Besides this, those who carried out the burials also have recollections and testimonies that nuance the picture. Those identifications that didn’t lead to a result also help because even if we didn’t find the person we were looking for, but instead we found an as yet unidentified person, we will work on the identification here, too. This is meticulous work, a sort of puzzle.”

How many bodies have been exhumed so far and how many have been identified?

“There were several hundred exhumations and we found more than 100 people and returned their remains to relatives. Our latest achievement was the exhumation and identification of the earthly remains of the beatified Salesian monk István Sándor in the summer of 2019.

“For a DNA-grade identification, we successfully used a saliva sample left on an envelope dating from 1950 that can be associated with the monk. At the same time, we were not successful in our search for the remains of Imre Biedermann similarly in summer 2019. However, we have identified numerous renowned individuals over the past 30 years: Péter Mansfeld, Pál Maléter, József Dudás. From a professional point of view, it was a great experience to find flight lieutenant Lajos Tóth, alias Drumi. The airman was ranked as an ace and in his military file, it was noted that although he was professionally good, he was not ‘reliable’. He was exploited by being made to train new flight recruits but then sentenced to death on the charge of spying in 1951 and he was buried anonymously. But we have carried out funerary-archaeology excavations in the New Public Cemetery and the prisoner cemetery in Vác. Here, we had an even more difficult job because we had less data than in the case of the abovementioned plots. That is why the identification of the earthly remains of Bálint Hóman was a great success.”

What is it like emotionally coming up against such troubled fates and stories day after day?
“This is difficult work, physically as well, because you have to go down into the graves and then come up. At the same time, this work has brought me many human relationships and data. Every grave has a story or several stories. I have met dozens of relatives and it is a great thing to return their deceased, making it possible for them to pay tribute and say farewell in a worthy setting.

“As far as I am concerned, there are no ‘lesser’ dead and ‘greater’ dead, there are only people. I am an anthropologist, not a historian, and I don’t have to categorize them.

“Even a common criminal deserves a funeral, he/she also has a family. An unmarked grave is unworthy and burial in a mass grave is undeserving of man.”

In your book Családi karikatúrák (Family Caricatures) you compiled short stories about your own family, which were published in Képmás. These reveal that you make use of sarcastic humour to resolve conflicts or make them tolerable.
“Yes, that is typical of me, but I have also realized that you have to be careful with humour: each person’s sense of humour is different, so it can happen that what I intended as jolly badinage others might feel offended by. These days I am more careful with comments I intended to be light-hearted.”

Have your children read Family Caricatures that is about them?
“Of course. My older daughter even demanded to know why I had written that nobody at home wants to take the bin out. This was when I stopped these family stories because in their teens, the time of writing and the current time are too closely associated for them. It doesn’t bother them what I wrote when they were three years old, but at 13, that is a different story. Later on, my daughter did say I shouldn’t have given up because of this.” (laughs)

What qualities that have helped you in life did you inherent from your parents?
“My father became a doctor in line with the expectations of his family, but besides this he dug deep – as a self-taught person – into many different areas that he was truly interested in: history and languages; he learnt, for example, Finnish, and he managed to develop his understanding of Armenian to such fluency that he translated old texts and built up a dictionary. He learnt to read music and play the piano by himself. This kind of curiosity and interest, that cost him so much sacrifice, taught me, I think, never to be satisfied with good enough. I inherited a sanguine outlook from my mother, a mathematician and programmer; she always endeavoured to overcome difficulties with humour. She loved being the centre of attention and she always had an idea for everything; she endeared herself in the family and at work with constant surprises. And both wrote poetry, pretty good stuff, too. I haven’t tried that but I have inherited a love of literature and the desire to write.”

You got married in your twenties. What did your husband change and shape in you?
“I acquired a lot of self-confidence from him, or rather, from how he saw me.

“In a good relationship, we see ourselves as mirrored in the eyes of the person who truly loves us.

“He always believed in and trusted me. If he hadn’t encouraged me, I would never have applied to university after college, and I wouldn’t have gone to the school of journalism.”

How have your three children helped or hindered your development as a human being?
“The children are miracles! Once one bears responsibility for somebody, decisions become so much clearer because everything falls into its own order of importance. Thanks to my children I have been a part of so many things that otherwise would never have happened, and I have been able to benefit greatly from these experiences in my work as a journalist as well.”

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Photo: Tamás Páczai

Did you succeed in harmonizing the rearing of children with learning and earning a living? Wasn’t there ever a time when you had to make big compromises?
“After completing the Hungarian-history faculty at the teacher training college I taught as a teacher for six months, in the meantime I married and afterwards our first child was born. In the same month I applied to the humanities faculty at Pécs university where I graduated from the Hungarian department. I had to bring the state exam forward a little bit because this is when my second daughter was born. I started the journalism course after the birth of my son. The fact that I studied while being at home with the children, and then later wrote articles for journals as a freelancer, worked very well for me. When my children started going to school I looked for a permanent job and this is how I ended up at Képmás. In fact, I had already written for the magazine earlier while freelancing. Looking back on it, everything proceeded very smoothly.

“In general, I don’t express my wishes, most probably because of a fear of being disappointed, yet in retrospect I can say that all my unspoken desires were fulfilled.”

Didn’t you ever feel that you couldn’t bear the home-work duality?
“Of course I did! All the time. When I started working an eight-hour day again it was no longer a little refreshing intellectual pursuit like when I was freelancing. My conscience was permanently troubled by the feeling that perhaps I shouldn’t be where I was. One evening I had to stay in the editorial office until late and on the way home I waited quarter of an hour at the stop, there was a heatwave, the tram didn’t arrive, I felt I could hardly stand and there was a buzzing in my ears. I knew that I still had to wash the gym gear of one of the children for the following day, then I had to do shopping for the other because of a school excursion… An ambulance raced past me with its siren blaring and it crossed my mind: if I collapsed now and the ambulance took me away, how could things be arranged for the next day without me? And that is when I heard a voice in my head: ‘If I give a task, I give time for it as well.’

“Of course, I should have known by using my brain that if I believe in God, I also have to believe that I will live as long as I have work to do, but even so this sentence came to me out of the blue.

“I remember that I was profoundly calmed by this awareness and I had occasion to repeat this sentence later on as well. Now I can almost see in front of me the faces of certain readers: ‘Well, she’s hearing voices, she really believes that almighty God spoke to her!...” (laughs) But which is the greater temptation: to believe this, or not to believe?”

When you joined Képmás as an editor, it was still a parish-initiated fresh journal but with great, nationwide ambitions.
“It was founded in 2002 by father Mátyás Illéssy, who was parish priest of Solymár at the time. I joined as an editor only in 2003, and I have been editor in chief since 2005. Naturally, at the Komlósi Teaching Studio I didn’t learn anything whatsoever about what a magazine espousing Christian values is.

“I had to reconcile the professional standards and openness towards the world that I had learnt there with a definite set of values that I certainly did not want to overstep.

“Together with my co-editor Kati Zalka we resolved this apparent contradiction. Together we sought out this untrodden and narrow path. Képmás also moved along with our own search. Every single member of the then small editorial office desired, and worked for, a modern media product communicating values we considered important. By now it is impossible to untangle whether Képmás changed us or we changed Képmás.”

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Photo: Tamás Páczai

It feels good to pick up the magazine because it is as though it is the joint work of art of several people, and its design is a true aesthetic experience. It could have been a cultural magazine yet it didn’t develop in this direction.
“I don’t think it is the task of a magazine to serve the demands of a narrow segment with refined tastes but rather it has to reach a wider audience. If something doesn’t work, it embitters everybody’s life and a magazine can help on several levels to make the quality of life better: healthcare tips, psychological advice, including faith elements, good leisure programmes and quality literature. Let’s be slightly better people. Better parents, partners, friends, children. As far as I am concerned, this is the motto of our profession and life as a whole. As editor in chief, I believe that everything that helps this is a good topic. And as far as joint work goes, it is like a ‘stone soup’. The stone brings the ingredients together, a few important things are written on it, we can call it brand or professional, human creed, but the taste and the content of the soup is given by everything that is subsequently added by everybody. By those who believe in Képmás. Staff members and readers.”

The topic of most articles is related to the family. Why is family so much in the centre?
“The family is the foundation of all human communities. We are born into it, we are accepted in a good family, we accept and also we are in need of what we receive in the family. This is where we learn almost everything about human relationships, and our relatives help us as mirrors to better learn about ourselves. It is important what this environment is like.

“One not only has to tolerate the family like an uncomfortable armchair in the room, but it is possible and worth making it even more valuable.

“Media products can help enormously in this, at the level of prevention and preparation, with sensitization and giving good examples. An instructive story or a good sentence can spark a positive chain reaction in the soul.”

Is this why you and your colleagues founded the Media for the Family Prize, which honours journalists writing positively and constructively about the family?
“The expression ‘positively’ can be misleading, it does not only mean writing about good things, but it is done so as not to ruin family values. When the prize was founded, we frequently came across media features presenting the family in a destructive way: that divorce is fashionable, having children is an obstacle to development, and one has to flee from a relationship that is malfunctioning. On entering the search word ‘family’ in the browser, it sometimes happened that the first hit was about ‘violence within the family’.

“Reality sacrificed on the altar of readership and viewership shows sensation and scandal, and implies that this is standard. In order to counter this, we wanted to support those journalists capable of showing the protective, healing and positive side of the family.

“We set up the Media for the Family Foundation and the professional prize today worth HUF 1 million in order to encourage these articles. Right from the very beginning, we managed to get many excellent journalists and experts to join the jury, for example, Professor Mária Kopp, Dr. Petra Aczél and Ilona Keresztes, who are all still jury members.”

Were you deliberately trying to refute stereotypes, for example, that women’s attention cannot be occupied by serious topics, only fashion and household tips, that a magazine cannot be sold without light romantic and tabloid stories?
“Yes, but perhaps today this does not even need refuting. Moreover, since then we have also changed a bit. We now speak to both women and men because it is similarly prejudice if we say that ‘magazine topics’ are only of interest to women. After all, topics like how to stay healthy, how the environment can be protected for our children, how we can learn more about the world and how we can live in a better relationship are all of importance for men as well.”

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Photo: Tamás Páczai

What do you think of those criticisms that Képmás is not sufficiently aggressively public affairs-oriented and that it being addressed to ‘women and men’ is not trendy enough?
“Sometimes we deal with not exactly heart-warming yet still important topics. For example, with disadvantaged regions, sad social phenomena, fate and serious ethical issues. Although we would like to present the beauty of life, it is also the task of a good magazine to give those of us who are in a luckier position some insight into those difficulties we do not experience in our own personal life. We cannot stand aloof from these. Actually, the addressing can also be militant because it means that God created man and woman in His own image. We dare to state this as well. And this means that on the basis of a certain type of conservative feminism, we consider man and woman to be of equal status but not identical, and comprehended in their entirety only when together. I wouldn’t want to buy white wine with a red wine label.

“Nor do we sell anything other than what we advertise on the cover page: ‘Képmás, for women and men’.”

How and why did the Képmás evenings start? How did the two-person conversation grow into a synthesis of the arts evening attracting an audience of several hundred?
“The first staff member of Képmás, András Urbán, always wanted us to meet our readers in person and create a community. We held the first conversation in the grand hall of Szent Margit Grammar School after screening the opera film Bánk bán. This was followed by a successful series with celebrity presenters, but after a time it died out due to lack of interest. We relaunched this as themed evenings four or five years ago, purely from Képmás resources, generally I was the compere but sometimes my colleagues did their bit, you included. After 18 months, I felt that this conversation choreography was not sufficient for people to dedicate a weekday evening after work.

“Everybody wishes for catharsis, an artistic experience and entertainment. I had the idea of linking the talks with artistic productions, dance, music, literature, theatre and film.

“Not necessarily as the topic of conversation but in order to be inspired by it. A good magazine is not only a data supplier, a forum providing tips, but art should also have a place in it.”

When you are writing or editing the magazine, can you visualize the ideal reader?
“I think that while editing, I primarily visualize those people with whom I could have a good chat. However, when the magazine is published, I always try to look through it with the eyes of a ‘more critical outside observer’, I ponder on what a person very different to me would make of this or that article. If I did this when editing, it is possible that nothing would ever pass through the filter. (laughs) They normally put out Képmás at the Salesian Chapel I attend on Sunday. When entering, I genuflect and my gaze falls on the magazines and – it is unbelievable for me as well – it is as if all one hundred pages pass before my eyes. Can I stand in front of God with the content of these one hundred pages? Of course, it’s no bad thing if I quickly finish flicking through the pages because this is not what I came for, after all.”

Is there any particular personal motivation that guided you towards researching Trianon?
“As a theatre critic, my father spent a lot of time with theatres beyond the border. I had my first passport when just three months old, when we went to see theatres in Oradea (Nagyvárad), Sfântu Gheorghe (Sepsiszentgyörgy) and Satu Mare (Szatmárnémeti). It happened that nearly the entire company of the Satu Mare Northern Theatre camped in our garden – these were great intellectual meetings so I was sensitized to the subject.”

What do we call Trianon: an unhealing wound, a bottomless well of painful memories, which can never be buried?
“The saying goes that with the passage of two or three generations, historical events cool down and become cold memory. Compared to this, the memory of Trianon is still alive today, partly because in the past century around one million people crossed into Hungary from the areas cut away, in several waves. When reckoned together with their descendants, this means that perhaps two to three million people are living in Hungary today who have some sort of association with the divested areas. In itself, the very existence of Hungarians beyond the border regenerates that sense of loss. This trauma should have been processed – only, it could not be worked through in the 20th century. In the interwar period, the good Hungarian was the one who said everything, or at least the majority, should be returned, while after 1945 this was a forbidden subject.”

How can one speak about Trianon today? Many are of the belief that with the customs union and a unifying Europe, it is no longer worth talking about Trianon.
“We have to find those turns of phrase that allow us to talk about it even at international forums.

“The world is not going in the direction where those types of argument such as the Holy Crown and one thousand years have any influence, because this manner of speech is currently not valid in the world – it is possible, however, that in a few decades it will be. Today, it is permitted to speak of minority issues, autonomy and linguistic rights. Every age has its own language.”

Now that the question of autonomy has been raised, to what degree should this be dealt with in relation to the commemorative year?
“Autonomy is important and necessary, but for example the issues of Transylvanian Hungarians are not going to be resolved if, at some stage, there is regional autonomy in the land of the Szeklers. Approximately one half of Transylvanian Hungarians live in Szekler land. The other half do not live there, and they too require institutions, schools, language rights and local government. The majority of Transylvanian Hungarians live in scattered populations, that is, in settlements where they are in the minority, perhaps a minority of under 20%, for example Cluj-Napoca (Kolozsvár), Timisoara (Temesvár) and Arad. Of course, there are forms other than just regional-based autonomy, for example, cultural-based autonomy, or even combinations of the two. But it is already evident that the concept whereby we establish a little Hungary in the land of the Szeklers and from then on everything with be fine, simply does not work.”

Recently, the Trianon speech by Count Albert Apponyi was broadcast on the radio, in which, amongst other topics, he enumerated our losses, primarily from an economic aspect. But it is obvious that the economic losses are not the most painful to bear.
“The human loss hurts most. If the borders had been drawn with just a little more justice, then approximately a half of the some 3.2–3.4 million detached Hungarians could have remained within Hungary. We are talking about 20-30 kilometres. The strip in Slovakia’s upland (Felvidék) that was returned to Hungary in 1938 was, at its widest point, perhaps 60–70 kilometres, but there were parts just 20 kilometres wide. I think that the First Vienna Award established ethnically fair borders; it is another question as to the circumstances in which it came about. There is very frequent mention of the fact that 97% of our pine forests were taken, and the ore mines, but let’s not forget that even at that time we could speak of an open, globalizing economy. It is not essential for one country to have everything – copper mines, salt mines, pine forests – because these things circulate in a functioning global market, it is possible to buy them. The processing industry was here, the mines there, there was a railway and fairly advanced shipping, these things could have been resolved. It is no coincidence that at that time the biggest competitor to the Hungarian grain industry was the rising American market because cereals could easily be shipped over the ocean. But Argentinian beef also started to gain a foothold before the First World War.

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Balázs Ablonczy

“Béla Tomka’s paper on this subject caused somewhat of an outcry. He made two assertions: one was that the greatest pain was not the loss of mineral resources, the second that the Hungarian economy got back on its feet relatively quickly after Trianon. By saying this, he claimed that the economy was able to get over the losses relatively soon. New branches of industry started to appear in the early 1920s: this was the time when the Hungarian textile industry and Hungarian chemical industry began to take off. These boosted the Hungarian economy, which began to drop behind European development during state socialism due to erroneous concepts concerning industrial development and the introduction of a Soviet-style system. Rather, the bigger problem was that the Trianon ruling shattered market sectors that had formed over centuries. Where do we go to the fair? Where do we find ourselves a wife? Where should our children go to school?

“The peace treaty smashed these relatively organically established economic ecosystems and because of this, dead regions came into being on both sides of the border.

“At one time, Fiľakovo (Fülek) hardware was a classy brand. One hundred years later, this once prosperous region has become a part of Slovakia most afflicted by crisis and not only because of the Roma inhabitants and depopulation. Data from ten years earlier: the proportion of diseases of modern civilization among Hungarians in the southern Slovakia region is 40% higher than the Slovak average.”

Could this be one of the long-term knock-on effects of the peace treaty? Weren’t the health consequences noticeable in the short term, that is, almost straight away?
“One can understand from the memoirs of archaeology professor Gyula László that their crossing into Hungary was nothing other than a constant story of illness: typhus epidemic, my mother fell ill, I nearly drowned in the river...

“The body of the nation is sick, and it is as though this would make the individual sick as well. This may appear to be a fanciful interpretation, but falling ill, and not only in memoirs, is a recurring motif.

“I have read a great many housing office applications and everyone details either that the Oláhs (Vlachs or Wallachians) beat them near to death, or they give details of their illnesses. In memoirs there are very many nervous pathologies, many clinical diagnoses rather difficult to determine these days, such as neurasthenia, nervous exhaustion, nervous fatigue. We just don’t know what these diagnoses covered at that time. The mayor of Alba Iulia (Gyulafehérvár) quit the town even before the incursion of the Romanians and he died in a mental asylum in Pest a few years later. Furthermore, the mayor of Bardejov (Bártfa) went mad, as did the mayor of Levoča (Lőcse). There were people who didn’t know what to do once the world around them had collapsed. Thus the great national tragedy appears in day-to-day life, in the stories of everyday people. When we speak of the peace treaty of Trianon, we rarely speak about the fact that the drawing of a line in Paris would have consequences driving a mayor to a breakdown, that Levice (Léva), at one time a thriving market town, would begin to die, and that refugees would suddenly appear in even the smallest Hungarian settlements.”

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What would have happened if… Trianon had never occurred? Where would these contrasts (buried by the peace treaty) have led?
“I don’t think that what would have been, if is not a valid question. I don’t think that we would have been able to sustain historical Hungary in unchanged form over decades. But let’s suppose that things stayed the same: it’s certain that there would have been significant masses of nationalities in the country, and the fact that this country is a multi-ethnic country should be reflected in political rights and language rights. There would have been little chance that the Romanians or Serbs living here would be totally assimilated as Hungarians. On the other hand, the contemporary Hungarian elite was very quick to embrace those Slovaks who were prepared to become Hungarian at least in part.

“The message was that if you become Hungarian, you can become anything: Hungary’s first knight banneret, indeed, the cardinal archbishop of Esztergom.

“After the First World War, Hungary was riven not only by nationality fault lines but there was a peasant-urban tension due to the rapid pace of development and tensions between the emerging Jewish middle class and Christian middle class also appeared. If there had been a coming together, or at least some kind of social cohesion, then in all likelihood it would have been possible to achieve somewhat more favourable borders, partly through armed self defence, or by arranging some kind of political consensus more quickly, and then perhaps the Hungarian peace delegation would have gone to the negotiations earlier – but even that is not certain. Trianon wouldn’t have happened this way, that is, that 3.2 million Hungarians out of 10 million – every third person, a third of the nation – being separated. Thus it is not useless to play with the idea of what would have been, if but it is only suitable for short-term projections and not to outline an alternative history. Here we would be moving into the world of novel-writing.”

Talking about the world of imagination, a whole series of Hungarian films has won international prizes but not one deals with Trianon and the fate of the ‘railway wagon residents’. What is the reason for this? After all, this period is a treasure trove rich in action, twists and turns.
“A while back I was asked to take part in a film club connected to Trianon and the discussion afterwards, and together with the organizers we sweated blood over finding a good, Trianon-related film. There aren’t any. I know of certain film outlines but it appears that there won’t be a film for the anniversary. But there should be, many of them, because the younger generation basically sources its knowledge from movies. The majority of young people acquired their understanding of 1956 from the film ‘Children of Glory’. I am all for such a film, as I am for the idea of a Trianon museum in Budapest, if it is done well. One can no longer win over the young generation with the unveiling of new statues. Other ways have to be found to get information across.”

At present, there are 15,000 names on the database of Trianon refugees made public on the website. More and more stories and family histories are constantly coming in. What can one conclude from these?
“When we published the names of refugees last June, the letters started pouring in. They started scanning grandpa’s diary written in the wagon.

“If there is any sense in historical research, then it is this: making the largely forgotten story of how many people moved to Hungary from the areas cut away after Trianon a common national history.”

What do we learn from the diaries and memoirs?
“I looked at the memoirs – and here I stress not diaries, which are written in the heat of the moment, but memoirs written a bit later – from the point of view of who explained why they came across. This is a very wide spectrum from László Ravasz and professor of archaeology Gyula László to Gyula Gombos, the general factotum of folk literature. (But Pál Jávor, Lola Réz Kosáryné and Ernő Rubik Snr. were also refugees.) I also sought those that reflected on why they remained. It was interesting to discover that there are no single-factor explanations: people never write in their memoirs that they came across because they wanted to stay Hungarian, they always add another reason. I wanted to remain Hungarian… and anyway my wife became ill and she could only be treated in Hungary. I had to leave because my local Hungarian colleagues betrayed me. I had to come because I was fulfilling God’s mission, writes bishop László Ravasz, who was then elected Reformed bishop of Duna-mellék (Danube area) – although it is likely he would have been the next Reformed bishop of Cluj-Napoca. My boss went across, which is why I am staying, writes Farkas Gyalui, deputy director of Cluj-Napoca library, who loathed his superior, Pál Erdélyi.  

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“It is my impression that yet another reason had to be added because the community they left behind criticized them: ‘You left us behind!’, while the community in Hungary criticized them because ‘you came across, leaving you own community in the lurch, you deserted your post and came here as a useless mouth’. ‘Those who left were not part of us / because if they were part of us, they would not have left’ – Sándor Kányádi wrote in the 1980s in his poem ‘Song of the Chronicler’. This is a very harsh statement but it is possible to draw a continuum all the way to Károly Kós’s ‘Crying Word’, where he says that anyone of us who went is a traitor to the nation.”

What became of the arrivals from beyond the border? How were they absorbed and assimilated into the mother country’s society?
“Between the two world wars, there was an irredentist, revisionist cult, but people were not in favour of having refugees appear in public physically or literary-wise. Somehow they were absorbed and this opens an interesting research question. In the early 1920s there was a programme where the state, despite the poor economic situation, built flats by the thousand in Szombathely, Miskolc, Budapest – one such example is the Nagy-Pongrác estate for refugee civil servants, where even the church tower was given Transylvanian-like motifs. In Szentimre garden city of Budapest’s XVIII district, the names of streets and squares refer to areas broken away: Hargita (Harghita county in Romania) Square is the central square, but there is a Sepsiszentgyörgy Street, Selmecbánya Street, and the designs of houses also bear witness to this. This estate was built for refugee functionaries in the 1930s. The refugees were located slightly away from the town centre and they were pushed to the fringes in public consideration, too. As the leader of the Pongrác estate association put it in the 1930s: ‘Here we are suspended between village and town, like Mohammed’s coffin’.

“We can see that the whole estate is an enclosure, delineated by the railway line on three sides and a tram line on the fourth. But if we are to reckon how many people these estates were home to, the number comes to just a few tens of thousands. It is apparent from documentation on Auguszta estate that the residents were subject to regular checks by the authorities: they were constantly badgered about fire safety, not without reason since the wooden houses covered with roofing felt were frequently going up in smoke.

“I think the reason the matter of refugees disappeared from public attention in the 1920s was because the government greatly feared the arrival of a new revolutionary wave since here was a mass of dissatisfied, highly skilled people.

“At the level of political loyalty, the fact that somebody was a refugee was a positive sign –since they came because they were good Hungarians – but as a mass, Hungarian society did not integrate these people. There is no refugee party, there are no films about the refugees, and those literary works that do deal with their case never entered the literary canon. If we examine individual career paths, it appears that by the second half of the 1920s the life of the majority of these people had come right somehow or other. Even if they hadn’t regained their earlier standard of living, still as regards their social status and position they had found their place again. But how precisely this happened, and whether the state assisted them in this, is very difficult to say today. These people were primarily absorbed by state administration, strangely enough appearing in the judicial system to the greatest proportion: more than a half of judges and prison guards were born beyond the border.”

Finally, doesn’t the phenomenon of globalization represent some comfort for the painful memories of Trianon?

“If we look at the situation 30 years ago, we find that compared to those days the Hungarian national minorities are now in a better legal and educational position. At the same time, the example of sub-Carpathia or Ukraine also reveals that this is a fragile situation.

“I know of only one choice, that is, that the Hungarian government gets involved in certain types of problems irrespective of political standpoint. Hungary must keep watching what is happening with the Hungarians in the Ukraine, or how they are treated and what laws are drafted in sub-Carpathia. There are some encouraging signs, for example the Ukrainian president of the republic said a few words in Hungarian in his New Year speech, which is a fine gesture but the question of what follows remains open. One could say how petty-minded that we are picking on the Ukrainians with regard to NATO partnership or EU accession. It may be that this is not a very sympathetic standpoint for very many people but the Hungarian state has to pay attention to this, the matter of Hungarian minorities is an important issue. It is possible to get the West accustomed to the idea that these are our preferences, different from theirs. At least at the margins of decisions it should come up that if minority rights are restricted, then the Hungarians become nervous and they will throw a spanner in the works.”

Boglárka: “Zsófi must have been three, Kata six and Dani nine when we suddenly thought it would be great to have a fourth child. However, a further pregnancy would have represented a huge burden. Due to a genetic disease, it was not even sure that I could give birth so at the beginning of our marriage we made it clear that if things worked out this way, then we would adopt. After three children we felt we could handle another.”

János: “It took a year for us to get all the official paperwork together. The preparatory course was held at the Ágacska Foundation. During the course, certain aspects of adoption were raised that we had never even thought of. A person is liable to just brush it off by saying: we adopt a child and that’s that, what’s so complicated. However, they removed the rose-tinted spectacles from us and this was extremely useful.”

What do you mean?

János: “They spoke a lot about motivation.

“For example, if a couple want to adopt merely to replace somebody, instead of just adopting a person, that is dangerous. In the same way, if we are solely thinking in ‘charitable’ terms, and we do not feel the deep-seated urge to adopt, then we shouldn’t say yes.

“Families are sought for children who were born from an unwanted pregnancy, that is why even new-borns are damaged, and older ones even more so. However, adoption is forever, as the name implies (in Hungarian, ‘örökbefogadás’ which is literally ‘receiving forever’). In adoption, there is no such thing as ‘if we don’t get on well then I’ll send the child back and ask for the next one in case things work out better’.”

Boglárka: “Anybody who excludes the adoption of a child of Gypsy extraction from the outset should really consider whether they are truly ready for adoption. The fact is, if they exclude somebody purely on the basis of racial affiliation, then they will not be able to accept the child’s less appealing personal traits. We heard a lot about attachment, which is very important for the child to be able to fit into the family without harm. For example, the child who runs to you at first sight and hugs your leg and begs you, ‘Take me home!’, probably cannot attach. There is a danger that in that moment when there is conflict, he/she will go away with the next person, or as an adult he/she will be unable to form a lasting partnership.”

So, the process started. What came next?

Boglárka: “In October 2015, we received all the papers. At the very end of November we got a phone call that there was a little boy on the other side of the country. First we saw a poor photograph and a misinterpreted case history, and we had to say yes or no to that. We clarified the clinical picture and we thought it would not be possible to come to a decision on the basis of a photograph. We indicated that we would like to meet him.”

János: “Zsolt was left in the hospital by his birth mother, from where he first went to foster parents and then at five months he was given to another family. In his case, it was a secret adoption, that is, we were not allowed to meet the biological parents, but still we managed to piece together some of what had happened. It is certain that it was a major break for Zsolt when at the age of barely six months he was moved from one foster home to another.

“We also know that the family we collected Zsolt from loved him enormously and brought him up as if he were their son, but since adoption does not come with any financial support, only for foster parent status, they voluntarily gave him up.”

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Photo: Tamás Páczai

Boglárka: “In early December we met them at the local child welfare agency. This is when they were hit by the realization that Zsolt would be taken from them. Then they did their utmost that this wouldn’t happen. They immediately said: ‘You can see that he is a Gypsy, can’t you?’ They were themselves Roma. This didn’t bother us because we were confident that this is how it would be. After this there was a little delay but because Zsolt would have been taken away from them anyway, we didn’t want to withdraw. We had merely half an hour with him at the first meeting. We knew we couldn’t force play and the approach, but we had to accept that we were strangers for the child.”

János: “This is good over the long term because it indicates that he is able to attach. Zsolt was not cuddly, he didn’t run to the arms of his foster parents but instead sat on the carpet pushing a car. Later, when he was with us, he kept this habit for a while, if he had any problems he stood in one place, he did not run to us. We were watching our first impressions and whether we could sincerely accept him or not. We knew since attending the course that if only one of us felt no, then it meant no for both. But luckily, in our case this was not like this. Zsolt was a really smiley, cheerful little child and much nicer than in the pictures. He totally charmed us with his eyes. There was no question that we wanted to see him again but the next day we had to call them again to prove that this was not done merely out of fleeting excitement.”

Did your children know about him?

János: “When we first mentioned this to them, we were already arranging the papers and I have to say that they were not pleased. Their first reaction was that we were enough, but if another child had to come, then at least he should not be adopted. Our oldest child was most against this, he was just reaching his teens and he was always thinking about what other people would say about the adoption and, as he put it, he had already ‘suffered’ enough with two younger sisters. There was a lot of emphasis on the course about the successfulness of adoption depending on how much the parents are able to accept it and how they communicate the fact to the outside.

“When a birth sibling arrives in the family, it is the same thing: it is not in the siblings’ competence but the parents’ whether there should be another child in the family. We invited them to come and see Zsolt and if they had any problems we could discuss the matter, but we made them understand that it was not their decision.

“The negative attitude only lasted up until the moment that they met Zsolt. In that minute, the wall collapsed.”

Boglárka: “In December, we went to visit him more often and for longer each time, despite the 200 km distance. At the beginning, the foster parents only went through to the other room, then they left the building, and finally we took Zsolt away for a little while. By that time he understood that something was going on and he was crying more and more. It was most difficult for him to know who exactly he belonged to. Then the time arrived that we could bring him home for three days between the two holidays. After we took him back, we indicated again that we would certainly like to adopt him and because he was crying a lot we also said that we would like to take him home with us as soon as possible. We took him home for good on 14 January.”

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Photo: Tamás Páczai

How did the process of attachment go?

János: “Our children immediately became friends with him. At that time there were magnetic letters on the fridge door, from which the kids had spelled out their names earlier. Once, Dani came to me and said that there were not enough letters but he had found out how to spell out the names of all four of them in the form of a crossword. At this moment I felt that Dani had accepted his younger brother. Zsolt needed more time to attach. The experience is that this attachment will be deep when he has spent as much time with the family as elsewhere. More or less, this was correct. When he started kindergarten, we had to tell the teachers to watch him because if the door was left open and somebody smiled at him pleasantly, then he would go away with them.”

It couldn’t have been easy getting on the same wavelength as Zsolt because you didn’t know anything about him.

János: “One of our relatives said it was like when you start watching a series but only in the middle of the second season. A good part of the prequels can only be inferred.”

Boglárka: “At the beginning, he hated water, probably due to an earlier traumatic experience, so the evening bath was a real torture for months. We had problems with eating as well. When he came to us, he lived on cocoa drunk from a baby bottle. He almost couldn’t swallow solids. One of his forms of protest was retching up food without a word. It was sufficient, he had eaten enough, but he didn’t try to say this out loud. Finally, we taught him that he should tell us what the problem was instead of vomiting the food.”

János: “Furthermore, we came across a big task right at the beginning: since the foster parents had not told him that they were not his biological parents, we had to tell him. We told him what vicissitudes he had gone through and that now he was going to be with us forever, he was our son and would never leave us. Up to this point he had cried a lot but after this talk everything changed. We were surprised that a two-and-a-half-year-old child understood this.”

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Photo: Tamás Páczai

Did anything ever make you feel that he had been born from an unwanted pregnancy?

János: “Yes. At the beginning he was invisible and not heard in the house. He instinctively hid because he didn’t want to disturb anybody. For months we didn’t know where he was because he kept very quiet. We saw that he was starting to enjoy things when on entering the house we could hear where he was.”

How easy was it for you to declare his Gypsy origin in your immediate environment?

Boglárka: “I remember when his origin came to light in the family, there was somebody who tried to warn us that we would have many problems with him. We said that this was our problem and we accepted it. However, since then Zsolt is the favourite of that member of the family. If we insist that this is not a problem, then the environment accepts it like this. Luckily, the kindergarten and school where the children go is open and receptive.

“We know that Dani also accepts this when once one of his classmates started to tell a Gypsy joke and he told him: ‘You know my younger brother is Gypsy, don’t you? Now, carry on!” It is no secret and no insult that he is a Gypsy.

“We had to make it clear in ourselves what is prejudice and what is reality. Are we susceptible to seeing something behind an observation that is not actually there, and are we able to distinguish this? It happened that we caught Zsolt fibbing and we looked up suddenly because we were prejudiced. We had to rethink whether we overreacted, being afraid that he was doing this because he was a Gypsy.

“Zsolt came from an environment lacking in stimulation, two and a half years in such circumstances is a long time. When he came to us, he didn’t pay attention to conversation, he wasn’t interested in fairy tales, he couldn’t play with others, and he didn’t engage with his environment. Now he is very sad if we don’t read to him in the evening. He has a very good memory, perhaps better than the others. In other areas he is making up for the backlog at a furious pace and in the meantime he is of great joy to us. Many are unwilling to adopt an older or non-white child. One should not be frightened of this, difficulties do not derive from that.”

You are known as being a strong couple. How did your relationship come about?

Judit Varga: “I remember exactly that it was 1 April 2005 when at an attorneys’ party a guy in a brown jacket sat down opposite me – it was Péter. A mutual acquaintance introduced us, we started to chat and in seconds we realized that we imagined our lives according to an identical system of values.

“It was relatively uncommon even then that somebody should date a woman by saying, amongst other things, that they would like to marry and become a parent when still young. Péter made no secret of this and I was very impressed.”

Péter Magyar: “I think it is a good thing to have children when young, on the one hand because a person is still more flexible, they overcome obstacles more easily, and on the other hand, having got past the young children period quickly, we are faced with enormous opportunities.”

Was it always evident that as well as motherhood, you wanted to excel in other areas as well?

Judit: “Yes. I always thought that life didn’t come to a halt after birth – but without children, it would stop! I was never concerned that there wouldn’t be interesting work for me, I always felt that this part of my life would be all right. However, if I didn’t have a family, then there was no sense to the whole thing, so I was more concerned about finding a partner. As a trainee associate, I was highly esteemed in several international practices, the only problem being that I had neither free weekends nor evenings off. From a professional aspect it was an extremely valuable period, I learnt a lot, but I had no time left for my private life. At that time, Péter worked as a court clerk, he finished every day at four in the afternoon, I sometimes came home late in the evening so he was waiting for me with a hot dinner. We felt that this could not go on in the long term. Our relationship became ever more serious and in August 2006 Péter asked for my hand in marriage and we changed our lifestyle.”

Péter: “At the time we talked a lot about what a healthy division of roles between a woman and man in a relationship looked like, even if there could be one. In the end we decided and in a sudden switchover I became a trainee associate, Judit carried on as a court clerk. It was absolutely clear that at that time she stepped back for our relationship.”

Judit: “Then it was 2008 and ‘young mother underground’, which I loved. I enjoyed long morning walks with our son on Sas Hill and I thought how much better this was than working myself to death in an office. This is another very good thing in a woman’s existence, that she can try out several roles. Of course, each evening I really looked forward to meeting up with civilization in the person of Péter. This period spent at home with a baby is a beautiful time but difficult as well, and it is important to speak of this, too.

“I don’t think it is right when one only talks of the happy times because for many, the monotony, the lack of adult communication can be frustrating – particularly when all the mother hears is that this is beautiful, that she has to feel happy in herself every single second of the day.

“By the time Levente was around one year old, I was longing to do something different.”

Then Péter stepped back: he gave up law in the interest of Judit’s career in Brussels, staying at home with their one-year-old child in a strange city. Was this a difficult decision?

Péter: “The decision itself was not difficult because I knew that, despite the low points, Judit also wanted to be at home with Levente and fundamentally this is a good thing. My career here in Hungary was just taking off, although we had always wanted to work abroad for a few years and Judit received an excellent opportunity in Brussels, so we jumped at the chance. After the first few weeks, just being at home – without friends and relatives – was very difficult, my horizons narrowed considerably. Since then I understand and can truly value the sacrifice made by women.

“The dynamic of the life of the partner at home with a child and the spouse going to work are completely different – this was when I understood why so many marriages break down at this time.

“It’s a completely different thing when I can stroll into work in the morning, and there are tough moments but I can drink a coffee alone at any time, in other words, basically I am a free man. Being at home with a small child, trouble can arise at any moment. This period shaped both our characters, it was instructive and it brought us together. I believe that several weeks or months spent at home can be important for every husband, father and it can result in the sort of strong father-child bond that is inconceivable in ‘telework’. Anyway, Judit is always going on about how unjust it is that when the husband goes out to work, he expects that on his return in the evening everything should be tidy, his wife should be dressed nicely, waiting with a cooked meal on the table, if possible the children are asleep – or they are at least quiet. When, however, the man is at home with the child, then the idea of these expectations does not even come up – or at least in her experience. It’s certain that I never waited for her dressed nicely (laughs).”

You rewrote the typical male-female division of labour but how did those around you take it? Didn’t they feel pity for Péter when as a man he stepped back in favour of his wife? Did they ever ask Judit why she couldn’t stay at home with the young children?

Péter: “I never experienced this as a victim, marriage is teamwork, and in fact in Belgium I met about as many fathers in the playground as mothers, so this was not such a big deal there.

“Of course, sometimes my friends have teased me since Judit became a minister, asking me who wears the trousers in our family. At these moments I always quote the husband of Margaret Thatcher, who laughingly replied to similar questions by saying: ‘I wear the trousers. And I wash and iron them, too.’ But when we talk seriously, I rather feel a sense of respect for the fact that we both allow each other to make our own careers. I am convinced that freedom of choice must be allowed for both women and men and the point is for both parties to be satisfied with the setup – if we desire a true demographic turnaround, we still have a long way to go in this respect.”

Judit: “With Péter, I have always been able to experience motherhood, what are traditionally called women’s tasks, as though I were in a cage with an open door: I knew that if I wanted to prove myself in another area, I could always fly out. Péter never expected me to give up anything of the person I am. If the door to the cage had been locked, then it is not certain I would have felt so good in myself, but in this way I was always happy to fly back.

“At the same time, I greatly esteem – and sometimes am slightly jealous of – those women who feel fulfilled by preserving the warmth of home, and it is very disturbing when this is presented as work of a lesser rank or value than a workplace career. This is a tough and responsible job, as any parent knows full well.

“On the other hand, I consider it important that we give the right of choice to every woman and we do not judge those who do not fulfil the mother-role in themselves.”

Yet isn’t it difficult that Péter, as a male manager of a company, has need of the presence of a supportive wife who, I’m sure, is unable to accompany him to every formal event?

Péter: Yes, but this is somewhat of a Prince Philip syndrome. Usually, if one of the spouses runs a major company, then family life adjusts to his/her schedule. Things are slightly different with us because Judit occupies the seat of Ferenc Deák and this is the greatest possible honour and at the same time the greatest responsibility for a Hungarian attorney. But I don’t want to deny that this role is difficult as an energetic man, and sometimes we consider ourselves to be a kind of social experiment: exciting and beautiful, but why is it happening to us? (they laugh) Because it can be heart-breaking if the children start crying when they once again see their mother with a suitcase, and perhaps it is even more difficult for Judit having to hold meetings in this knowledge. At these times I always remember ‘homeland above all else’, we undertook this public service. If our example contributes to a position when in a few years’ time in Hungary it won’t be abnormal if a woman undertakes a leading position in public life alongside motherhood, or even with a large family, then we will not have lived in vain. I reckon the key is to be sought in finding the right companion, but it is important that the reinterpretation and transformation of roles does not result in chaos.”

And Judit, what is it like not being able to be the supportive wife on every occasion, indeed, now Péter has the supportive role?

Judit: “I’m not very keen on events where we are seated separately. Naturally it is hard that Péter is frequently in a supportive status and I am sorry that I cannot always accompany him to important events. But we don’t only appear a strong couple from the outside, we are tempered within as well (they laugh). It is important for me that a husband should be a man and a wife a woman. As to how they complement one another, that depends on the couple, I reckon. I consider it important to keep the rhythm together, and always the one should move forward or sideways as the situation demands.”

Judit, when are you able to live the traditional feminine role?

Judit: “For example, I really love being able to clear the table after a dinner with friends so that the men can talk, I like washing up, I clean the spots from clothes and I like dressing prettily. And of course, one of the most atmospheric things is when I can make dinner on a summer evening in the kitchen of our house on the Balaton.

“I consider order in the family to be very important, that the children know where to find everything – I think this is fundamental to their spiritual stability. And order is vital in their everyday life as well: that everything goes smoothly with the music classes and sports, which are important in character shaping.

“It is not definitely school but rather these that teach them fair play, humility, teamwork, that we should always appear less than we actually are – if these are missing in their childhood, then they won’t have the tools to be happy as an adult. If I have to take part in a cabinet meeting, if I have not managed to organize these for the children, then I cannot feel as self-confident as when I know that my heartland is stable. Because in this case there can’t be major problems and ‘all’ I have to do is answer questions that arise at the cabinet session.”

Péter: “In fact, while we were living in Brussels our two younger sons were born and once again Judit took one step back while I moved up a rung on the diplomatic ladder.”

Judit: “Yes, in effect for years I’ve been on the backburner. Péter travelled a great deal so that in those years I held the front at home, but this was a very lovely time as well. With young children I had the ideal work, because in the afternoon I took them to football training and music classes, indeed, I headed up the parental community at the school in Brussels for a year. We often look back with a measure of nostalgia on those happy and – compared to our current life – certainly calmer years, but in the meantime we feel that God places that burden on each of us that we are capable of bearing.”

As a minister, in what way are you different to a man?

Judit: “In my vocation, for me it is not important to annihilate in a macho way the other party during a discussion, but to somehow reach a compromise. I have found that we women, during our life, so many times experience the physical and emotional depths – let’s just think of pregnancy, giving birth, being at home – that we have less tendency to be big headed, we have more humility in us. We are more emotional and thus our approach is different to that of men. This is also needed in public life. Of course, not on the basis of quotas but on aptitude.

“According to the statistics, mothers with several children are above-average efficient workers. Of course, as a mother it is tough that I am frequently far from my children, but for them this is normal because they grew up with it. We are their parents and I consider it most important that we remain ourselves.

“I believe that if we stick together, we can jointly bring up our three sons to be happy adults.”

Why not show our capital from a new, family angle as well? This inspired idea came to Fruzsina Nyári, founder of the Babagúz and Lottirose family travel assistance service. The fact is that in the course of her work, she found herself frequently being asked where foreign families visiting Hungary should go when in Budapest. “We, too, had the same question when we travelled with the kids to some foreign destination, for example, Dublin or Barcelona: what a great thing it would be if there was a collection of the best places for families, because neither an Irish pub nor the long queue to enter Sagrada Familia makes for the ideal experience when you have two tinies in tow,” says the brains behind the ‘Budapest with Kids’ map, speaking from personal experience.

The booklet, which is designed to help both families in Budapest who want to wander around and families with children visiting as tourists, has a "slow&green" approach. The slowed-down exploration of the city is encouraged by the fact that families can open a classic map format in the digital world and browse and plan together with their children.

Anna Babics, the drive behind the project’s creative concept, spoke more about this approach: “We know that in itself, the urban environment surrounds children with masses of stimuli: noisy, pressing and fast-moving. When we set about choosing leisure activities, it was important for us to select slow&green programmes and venues in which it is possible to be enriched with simple experiences, calmly and quietly.”

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Photo: Babagúz

In this light, the Budapest with Kids map proposes more than 100 special places from natural playgrounds through green shops and cultural programmes all the way to family-friendly catering outlets. “The map features proven and trusted favourites, the sort of places that we like to visit with our own families: one of our old favourites is the Pony Courtyard at Normafa, we enjoyed a family picnic birthday in the beautiful wooden playground of Szent Ferenc Hospital, both my son and daughter learnt to walk in the great parks of Újbuda, while most weeks we find something to read in the Bartók Pagony bookshop,” says Anna Babics about the overtly subjective selections.

Illustrations of places waiting to be discovered were made by László Báthori, while the overall refined design of the city compass is the work of Zita Lengyel-Szabó: “Laci and I looked through dozens of foreign city map designs, for days we just drew inspiration because we wanted to create a really fine product.”

“The best compliment the project received later on was when somebody asked: on what stock page can you find these graphics of the places? I really had to laugh and I told the person that Laci had drawn them all.”

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Photo: Babagúz

The first picture to be done was the Czakó Smallholders’ Market, in which the illustrator also depicted a kitten. The other members of the project liked this touch so much that they asked for the appearance of more cute animals when putting together visuals of other locations.

The first edition of Budapest with Kids was published in Hungarian and English in 1000 copies, and is currently available on the Babagúz webshop and Lottirose Deák Square package point. Part of the HUF 1500 price is earmarked for charity. “It was always important for us to back good causes. We work independently with Amigos for Children Foundation and manager Sára Forgács-Fábián to ensure a happier childhood for those who come into contact with us. A percentage of every map sold goes to Amigos and it was an enormous joy for us that influencers helping the map campaign also offered their fees to the Foundation,” reveals Fruzsina Nyári.

Today, the map helping families in their journey of discovery, which is packed with peaceful experiences, has been supplemented with numerous other services: there are family and pocket colouring books and even a full-size poster, which can be a handy adornment for children’s bedrooms. Shortly, Babagúz online platforms will be running a one-minute video series covering places shown in the map, with the participation of a ‘tester team’ made up of children.

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Photo: Babagúz

And what does the future hold? In 2020, the team is preparing for a really special summer surprise, and in the first half of the year they are debuting the ‘Budapest with Kids’ app as well, which alongside the 100 places already on the map will suggest further ideas.

On top of this, it brings together pushchair and walking pathways of discovery in which diaper changing stations, ice cream parlours, parks for resting and the best playgrounds are just as much integral parts as a sightseeing tour enjoyable both for adults and children.

Of course, the Budapest with Kids map is not a ‘mission accomplished’: Fruzsina Nyári and her colleagues are constantly updating and expanding the list of places recommended for families. “We would like to initiate a dialogue about what can be done to make Budapest a truly family-friendly city. We are always seeking cooperation with major companies, hotels, restaurants, as well as decision-makers because there is still much to do in the fields of transport and services. As is evident on our map, too, we have a beautiful city rich in ideas and family venues, it is our common responsibility to look after it!”

– Why did you choose Hungary as the venue for the world premiere of this piece?

– We have been working together with the Hungarian Radio Art Groups (Since the 2019/2020 season, Mr. Cura will be for three years the permanent guest artist of the HRAG- Ed.), who are my artistic family, so whenever I'm preparing for a premiere, first I ask them for their opinion. My idea had immediately found their approval, so we staged the Montezuma together.

– How do you find working with the musicians of the Hungarian Radio Symphony Orchestra and the Choir?

– Working with Hungarians is captivating, I could best describe it with the words „dangerous” and „fiery”. They are rather temperamental, which I truly like about them. Apart from their work in the band, they also have other side jobs, such as teaching, so they are quite busy and there are times they are tired by the time they get here for rehearsals, so I need to keep that in mind. This is our second collaboration therefore I am getting to know them more: I already know who is married, who has children, who has any personal problem… I turn to them not as maestro but as a friend, which I consider essential in a community.

– How did you choose the musicians for the roles?

– It wasn't my job, as the artistic manager of the band was responsible for it. I knew the majority of them from earlier, we had been working together two months ago when we were preparing for the first rehearsals of the play. Because of the versatility of the characters, it was challenging to find the right people, for example the real Vivaldi was not only a composer but also a violinist, so playing his character required a tenor who plays the instrument. We are incredibly lucky with Donát Varga, who is a great violinist and tenor in one person.  

– The story begins with a Mexican baron, the Lordship, who is traveling to Venice, where during the carnival, wearing the costume of Montezuma, the Aztec ruler he meets Vivaldi, who, inspired by the encounter writes an opera about the Indian king. What artistic tools do you use to take back the audience to the 1700-s?

– The language of the opera follows the aesthetics of the Baroque: a band of only forty people play the music on stage, consequently the lyrics is more audible. In contrast, during the time of romance, the entire band played during recitativo or dialogues, occasionally interrupting the continuity of the play with its monumentality.

Baroque, by the way, is my favourite era in music history and I am a great fan of Bach, for me he is the alpha and omega of music, but Vivaldi, Händel and Scarlatti are also close to my heart.

– To create a more realistic show, the characters speak their native language. Do you speak the actors' dialect?

– More or less, yes, I do. My mother tongue is Spanish, and I also speak English. I lived in Verona for four years and while I don’t speak the Naples dialect yet, I did learn the Venetian one. Of course, during the performance the audience will have the benefit of subtitles so they will understand all the words of the actors.

– You wrote Montezuma based on Alejo Carpentier 's novel „Baroque Music”, which you first read 30 years ago. Why did you wait for so long for the work to be staged?

– Even then I had found the book a great literary work, saw that it can potentially be remade, however I was only 27 and had no idea where to start. When it came into my hands much later, it has all become clear to me, thanks to my experience over the past decades. The key characters of the story are composers, so it was logical to turn it into an opera, not to say a movie.

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Kép: Páczai Tamás

– Despite his comic opera genre, Montezuma begins with a tragedy: Francesquillo, a servant of the Lordship, dies in plague. In a later scene, Vivaldi, Händel, and Scarlatti talk in a cemetery where they leave to bid the then deceased Wagner a farewell. How do death and comics fit together?

– You can die with humour. (laughs) If death is seen as a sorrowful event, it has nothing to do in a comic opera, however, instead of as a romantic element, I see it as part of the development, a transformation. Francesquillo's death is a symbol of the metamorphosis of a little child: the act begins with a young boy and ends with Philomeno, a man older than him, when the servant is reborn in his soul. Later, Philomeno takes control of the moral of the story, and Francesquillo had to die before he could enter the scene

– In the sixth scene, the Lordship challenges Vivaldi and questions his opera as historically unreliable, but the composer proclaims the primacy of the poetic illusion instead of stating the facts. Which do you consider more important in art?

– I believe in a happy medium: to allow room for imagination without distorting reality.

Personally, I love realism onstage, but the situation was different with this opera, as the novel it was based on was written in the genre of magical realism that is typical of Latin American literature. Carpentier toyed with the idea of what it would have been like if Vivaldi was writing in the modern era, parodying the fashion of the Baroque era, therefore women are singing many of the songs.

– Did you use other sources for the libretto?

– Carpentier does not elaborate on who Montezuma was because of space limitations, so I read historical texts and chronicles of the Aztec ruler, such as works of Bernal Díaz del Castillo and Fray Francisco de Aguilar, but these are only theories and do not reveal the whole truth. I built the most dramatic approach into the story. When one writes a play, they need different characters on stage. Instead of these disputed texts, I relied on paintings and my imagination to create the personal profiles of the characters. Looking at the pictures, I tried to figure out who they were. On that basis I imagined the plump Handel being a sweet, lovable figure, while the elegant and sophisticated appearance of Vivaldi I reckon, hid a captivating personality.

– Who's your favourite character?

– The servant of the Lordship, Philomeno who joins and follows him after Francisquillo's death and for him he is like Pinocchio's little counsellor: keeps watching and commenting on everything. Although musically he is not, but from a moral point of view he is the main character of the play: the way the story unfolds is in his hands.

Due to Philomeno being a person of colour, the issue of human rights has been raised several times in the opera, which is why the title of the play became „comedy – but not so much”.

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Kép: Páczai Tamás

– The story ends with the Lordship's decision to travel back to Mexico and release Philomeno, who is trying his fortune in France. Can he, a black man thrive there as a famous trumpet player?

– The servant is going to Paris hoping he will be called Monsieur Philomeno there and will not be called „the Negro”. When he hears his desire, the Lordship defies that this may change one day, to which Philomeno replies, „If you say so...” This leaves the question open, and it is not for me to answer it, the audience must draw their own conclusion. I do not think it is a great idea for the author to explain the ending, thus just letting the viewers go home, drink a coffee and forget what they have seen. It's more exciting if they must figure it out for themselves: in this case, they think about it for a long time and start conversations about how everyone interpreted the play.

– How do you see the issue of human rights?

– Racism is still present today, and the problem of migration is causing much debate in Hungary and throughout Europe. Politicians, to divide society, always paint a black and white picture, but this is a much more complex issue. I have nothing to say about it, I know both sides of the coin: my grandparents were immigrants from Italy, Spain and Lebanon. They arrived in Argentina at the beginning of the last century, and I was born there. Thirty years ago, I came to Europe. Migration between continents is a natural cycle: we start from one point to another therefore we cannot tell where we will be in a hundred years.

I sympathize with the situation of those on the road to a better life, but I also understand the concerns of Europeans, who are frightened by the masses of people coming to their country.

Uncontrolled admission of immigrants does not benefit anyone. We need to provide them a future, a job, give them hope and dignity, as begging for change on the street is not dignified but an open attack on migration. The only thing I cannot tolerate is the lack of education and compassion; with violence, neither side achieves its purpose.

– How do you remember the time you came to Europe?

– In 1991, I often waited at the police, in the company of Africans, to acquire a residence permit for three months and then came back every three months to apply for a new one. It took me over 15 years to establish my livelihood here, including obtaining a European passport. These experiences also influenced my career: I wanted to travel to England before the Schengen Convention existed, and there were problems with my Argentinian passport. When I wanted to return to Italy, the police officers treated me rather rudely at the border. I know what it is like when immigrants have no money to eat and can't find work. I remember once someone left me on the roadside because he was convinced that every Argentinian is a thief. Over the past 57 years of my life, I have had many dramatic and many beautiful moments, and those experiences have made me the man I have become.

– How important is the South American culture to your life?

– Every culture is important if you want to be a great artist. It is, of course, impossible to make it all our own, but we must strive to at least discover the cultures that surround us or represented by our characters. Due to my background I can relate to the Spanish and the Italian, but also the Arabic and the Lebanese.

– What is your relationship to the Hungarian culture?

– Although I have been visiting Hungary for twenty years, during my visits I spend little time here and have no opportunity to sightsee. Right now, I'm commuting between the Academy of Music and the Radio, so while the National Museum is within a stone’s throw, we work 10 hours a day, so by the time we finish, it closes. In a few months however, I may be able to give a different answer to the question. For the first time, as a guest artist at HRAG, I have a closer working relationship with the nation, so I slowly absorb the Hungarian culture and lifestyle and they don’t see me as a guest anymore

– The audience will first see the fruits of your joint work on January 29th. What kind of reception do you expect?

– I can't tell you that, but I trust they will like it. If they will not boo, that's already positive feedback. (laughs)

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Kép: Páczai Tamás

– Who is the target audience for your comic opera?

– This is a remarkably clever and dangerous question! (laughs) Montezuma is for a wide audience. This is an intellectual comic opera that contains many references to other works. Viewers will have fun even if they have no prior knowledge of them, but the play will be enjoyable best if they recognize all the hints. This is no different with other forms of art. If you're going to the Louvre not having heard of the Mona Lisa, you are only going to see a smiling lady in front of you, but if anyone explains the hidden meaning of that masterpiece, all the colours, the use of the brush, the thoughtfulness of the picture will make sense at once. Being knowledgeable thus allows us to have more fun.

– What references did you hide in the opera?

– In his book Carpentier cites many musical works as he was also a music historian. In addition to the works of Vivaldi, Handel and Scarlatti, in the Montezuma we will evoke the Othello from Verdi, the Circus Polka from Igor Stravinsky and for twenty seconds a few lines from a literary creation, Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet will be quoted. We also refer to Walt Disney as a joke, juxtaposing his tales with Wagner's fantastic world.

– Montezuma is your first opera. Why has composing previously been neglected in your career?

– As a tenor, I have given a hundred performances a year, with no time left to compose. Composition is a whole-person task; when I orchestrated the music of Montezuma, I spent weeks in the studio, talking to no one, and the outside world ceased to exist for me.

– Do you plan on composing more pieces anytime soon?

– I'm looking for another libretto, and I hope it won't take another thirty years before I find it, that would be too late. (laughs) Composing music is not the greatest challenge today. It’s finding the perfect libretto that interests people.

(Translated by János Farkas)

After a trip of nearly 40 minutes from Miskolc, our train draws into Ináncs station at 11:30 am. This, along with Pere, Hernádbűd and Hernádszentandrás, is the fourth (and largest) village in the programme. We left Budapest on a cloudy morning yet here we are met by glorious sunshine. Social worker Fruzsina Benkő, founder of Jószolgálat Prize winning InDaHouse Hungary, meets us with the minibus. The fact that Fruzsi learnt to drive in order to be able to transport children around here perhaps says a lot about her commitment. As a deep-rooted Budapester, she moved to the village in the summer in order to supervise the construction work. She just left the building site of the Volunteer and Children’s Centre that she has long been dreaming of creating to come and collect us. In fact, today is an exciting day: if the weather stays fine, we can learn about adobe plastering from one of the local grandfathers. But let’s talk about that later.

Let’s contract!

Our first trip takes us to the special school where – as it is the start of the InDaHouse academic year – contracting with the children is already well underway. “Earlier, our school kids made vows, and now all of them talk about their annual (learning) targets with the help of volunteers, and together with acceptance of the main rules i.e. nobody hurts anybody, and at most five absences are permitted per term, all this is set down in writing,” Fruzsi explains. Until their own place is completed, in all likelihood in October, one of the buildings in the village hosts school classes, just as in the previous two academic years. The building was loaned by Hernádszentandrás local government.

From 10 am to 2 pm, children aged 6 to 16 - fifty-eight this year - take turns in 2-hour slots over the two days, with the first half hour of sessions spent in group play (outside in the courtyard in good weather), followed by individual coaching.

The latter is the result of well coordinated work: volunteers preparing test sheets on the basis of individual interest and difficulties of the children, mentors following the path of each child and volunteers either travelling here or teaching via Skype all work together from week to week.

All for one: Szabi makes it to grammar school

Bogi is 12 and starting her fifth academic year at InDaHouse (meanwhile, in 2016, she spent a year in Canada with her family), she likes learning, she gets top marks in most subjects, although she would like to improve her mathematics “to at least the best”. Her goal is to attend grammar school in Miskolc, although she would willingly learn the profession of hairdressing.

In fact, four students of InDaHouse started this academic year in grammar school as a result of extensive preparatory work and many conversations. Fruzsi reckons this is one of their biggest successes so far.

One of them, Szabi, studies in Budapest, although even here they stay in touch: thanks to donors, they are able to cover his necessary expenses and volunteers support him in transport and studying. “We have seen much more in him than anyone has ever seen before” Fruzsi says in response to my question about whether without them, Szabi would still have had the urge to attend grammar school. At the same time, she emphasizes that they are not forcing anything on anybody, they rather represent an attitude: “let somebody be a stonemason, but then let him be the best.”

“I receive emotion”

In the meantime, the first class is finished and then comes the news: one of the older girls, although already enrolled, does not want to come to school. Fruzsi drops everything and we go together to get Ramóna who, after revealing the problem, is prepared to come with us. Meanwhile, she tells us that they have been going to InDaHouse with her nine-year-old younger brother for several years and they have been on several summer camps. So it is not surprising that for the children, Fruzsi’s programme goes well beyond the improvement of study results. In InDaHouse they give a lot and receive a lot, as witnessed by the handwritten ‘term starting’ slips. For example, what? Love, attention, kindness. Mutual assistance. Emotion.

But they also receive experiences and presents. However, to get these requires persistence, commitment and the ability to go beyond what they thought possible. InDaHouse’s self-developed Manna system is designed to measure this.

The children collect stamps throughout the whole year – in line with their cooperation and diligence – thus getting them to the point where at the end of the year they can swap these for a much longed-for bicycle, for example, or a trip to Budapest.

In the course of the year, the excursion club set up this spring by one of the volunteers represents adventure for the kids: they learn about respect for nature and each other while trekking in Zemplén and Bükk. By overcoming their own fears, together they reach the summit, with each taking on a role – doctor, navigator, lead ant, rearguard – for the team.

20 days building – as a woman

It is two o’clock. Lunchtime. There is silence at the building site just a few metres from the school, only Dávid, one of the building volunteers, is digging an ever-bigger pit – it’ll soon become apparent what this is for. In fact, construction of the house – starting with the purchase of the plot and the small adobe brick house standing on it, which has become part of the new construct – is the result of until now unprecedented cohesion. Private and corporate donors have given around HUF 30 million including materials and it is not impossible that with the arrival of further secondary school and corporate groups, the number of volunteer helpers may even reach 600. Rooms required for children’s classes are located on the ground floor while volunteers (perhaps even long-term foreign helpers) can be accommodated on the upper floor in single-, double- and four-bed dormitories.

For the time being, the local government provides accommodation for volunteers travelling here. Fruzsi has fixed accommodation. We meet them at lunch. From them I find out that several of the school and early child development volunteers started at InDaHouse labouring on the building.

For example, since September last year 29-year-old Zsófi, who is studying for her PhD, has spent approximately 20 days here doing different jobs – tiling, partitioning, sanding – and she ‘debuted’ at the school today. She can travel down to Hernádszentandrás once a month. (A weekend lasts from Friday evening to Sunday evening, with volunteers arriving together from Budapest in the InDaHouse minibus.)

Visiting Nikó’s family

In addition to the six volunteers in the school and six working on construction, this weekend there are three volunteers going to homes of families living in Pere, Hernádszentandrás and Ináncs giving so-called early development training for children aged 0-6 years (about 50 kids in all).

This is particularly important because quite often children enter primary school with deficiencies in certain skills. Leaving from the InDaHouse guest house operating in Pere as a social enterprise, where the girls spend their lunchtime, we accompany Csenge and Alexa who have been working in the programme for a year, and the ‘new recruit’ Brigi, to the next family in Pere. Csenge said that the families were open to the visits and the volunteers quickly gained their confidence. We turn up with a huge bag full of various skill development games at the house of one-year-old Nikolasz, his two older siblings who go to school and their parents. While Alexa and the father of the baby deal with Nikó, the other two girls play with Amanda and Dominik who start school this week. Erzsó, their mother, reckons that the two older children developed enormously during their preparatory school year and they can hardly wait for first class in Szentandrás the following morning. Last year, Dominik built up enough points for a bicycle and he still hasn’t used up all his ‘stock’.

The long-awaited adobe plastering

We bid farewell to Alex and her colleagues and with the help of a local father taking over driving of the minibus we return to the building site where the abovementioned InDaHouse grandfather – in gratitude that his grandchildren can come here – teaches volunteers about the skill of adobe plastering. They have all been in the pit dug by Dávid for the past hour, joyfully trampling the clay ‘mined’ the day before with chaff. Soon it is time to start plastering the small adobe brick house.

Building work, that is in its second year, is expected to be finished in approximately two months, but the InDaHouse team won’t find themselves idle: thanks to a private donor, they can buy the small house in the village where, after renovation, they will realize another great dream, a community café.

This will give the older children the chance to learn about the world of work and enterprise. Besides this, Fruzsi and her partners would like to involve the village of Fügöd (with segregated school and kindergarten) belonging to the town of Encs in the programme within the next few years, but to achieve this they have to strengthen their human and financial resources. It is also important to guarantee long term the salaries of the three employees working full-time in the association. In other words, there are plenty of challenges ahead but the team’s diversity, creativity and persistence have already moved mountains.

From among the achievements of the past year, what are you particularly proud of in your work and in your personal life?

“Let’s look at one or two specific things from this very active year! Professionally speaking, the Budapest Demographic Summit was one of the events I look back on with pride in the year we have left behind. This was the third occasion that we invited from all round the globe those people who think as we do on the subject of families, and it was good to see that there are ever more of us: during this period, governmental, NGO, church and scientific players working for families have gained in strength. For these two days, Budapest really was the capital of families: we could experience that we are not alone, that there is sense to our work, and it was very good to be here as a Hungarian! To raise another example beyond the Family Protection Action Plan known by most people, I value the fact that in 2019 we were able to make a major advance in discovering and solving the problems of children and their families living with Type 1 diabetes. There are nearly 4000 such families in Hungary, for whom everyday life represents a serious challenge; it is very good to help here so that these children and their relatives can finally live a more complete life.

“In my personal life, I would mention when we could go and support our daughter in her first basketball match, it was a great feeling and new parental experience that the whole family could cheer her on in a game. Of our three children, two started a new school where they have to perform to a much higher level. I would like to give them more help so that they find it easier to wrestle with the new challenges. If they don’t perform to the best of their abilities, I look on it as a personal failure. I don’t think that everyone has to be A+ in all subjects, but their abilities have to be developed and we have to support them in this.”

Several in the Képmás editorial office declare themselves to be conservative feminists, which means family-centric equal opportunity activism. We hold the government’s family protection activities in high esteem because alongside many other beneficial effects, it helps lessen those disadvantages women may suffer that can derive from motherhood. We consider one of the most important events of 2019 to be when Prime Minister Viktor Orbán announced the launch of the Family Protection Action Plan.

“As far as conservative feminism goes: yes, women must receive support. We do not want anyone to lose an opportunity just because they are a woman. The greatest challenge in the life of women is when family and work tasks clash. This is why we are trying to provide the greatest help here.

“The announcement of the Family Protection Action Plan (despite me knowing what the prime minister was going to say) was for me a moving moment. I received feedback from many other places saying that others were similarly affected as they sat in front of their TV sets after the announcement. For us, the real work started after this. I won’t tell you that everything went smoothly from the start. For example, we received many more applications for car purchase grants for large families than we had originally calculated; initially we reckoned that about 10,000 would submit applications in one year but we are now already over the 20,000 mark and only six months has passed. This is why at the beginning the administration was rather slower than we would have liked, but we have made every effort to change this. I am confident that everyone has received access to funding on time.

“The Family Protection Action Plan is able to help many hundreds of thousands of Hungarians in all sorts of different situations, whether in terms of beginning a family, setting up a home, starting an independent life or raising children, the perfect example of which is that by today, nearly 100,000 families have applied for one form of support or another in the action plan.”

The Hungarian family support system is very diverse. To what extent have you been able to get information across to those who need it?

“One of our basic principles is that it should be as simple as possible to submit a claim for the grants. Earlier, for example, the ‘soc-pol’ system was extremely complicated, while today the fundamental principle is clear: the more children, the greater the level of support. Perhaps now Hungarians can really feel that those who are planning and expecting children can count on assistance. It is important that in every new life situation – if a brother or sister joins the family, if a child starts going to school, if a family would like a new home or would like to exchange their car – then it is well worth getting informed about the opportunities because in virtually every life situation we stand alongside young people and families, offering help. If anybody needs up-to-date, authentic and understandable information, I would recommend they go to csalad.hu. It is easy to find one’s way around and there is no need to read up on the details in the incomprehensible language of legal regulations but in the simplest of formulations. I have no hesitation in recommending this website for everyone!

“At the same time, it is worth phoning the government helpline on 1818, which is accessible 24 hours a day on every day of the week, where trained members of staff are ready to take calls.

“More than 30,000 calls have already been received only with regard to the Family Protection Action Plan. In other words, everyone can receive information, it is only up to them whether they take advantage of the opportunities.”

There are countless family life situations and it is difficult to offer a response to every situation. For instance, in a comment made to an article on kepmas.hu a mother complained that in the case of a graduate on GYED (childcare benefit), the person has to go out to work again before the birth of the second child in order to remain eligible for childcare benefit.

“Precisely in December the legislative provisions of graduates on childcare benefit were modified in the National Assembly so this year this matter is no longer an issue, it has been resolved. It was a legitimate suggestion and we responded to it. We receive a huge amount of feedback from families in all kinds of circumstances; this modification was similarly in response to such feedback. Family policy is a little like football in that everyone has their own opinion about it. Which personally speaking I am pleased about because this ensures that feedback makes its way to us, we are then able to assess the claims, and in given cases we can insert them into the funding system. We are constantly monitoring and we make every effort to establish forums where we can properly respond to issues raised there. We also receive regular feedback from customer services while KINCS (Kopp Mária Institute for Demography and Families) also frequently conducts opinion polls on the topic. Stability of legislation and predictability are important but where necessary we respond sensibly and reasonably.”

From January 2020, childcare benefit for grandparents and exemption from personal income tax for mothers of four or more children came into force. Do you know of similar legislation in other countries?

“There is not really another international example like this, wherever I go in the world everyone is amazed when I speak about such things. Many are unaware with regard to exception from personal income tax for mothers of four or more children that this is for life: in other words, any mother who is expecting a fourth child will not pay personal income tax after income on work she has done for the rest of her life, irrespective of all other benefits. This entitlement remains in force even if she should lose one of her children.

“Tax exemption affects nearly 40,000 mothers. Everyone who is in this situation can count on receiving support.

“Grandparent childcare benefit also offers genuine help. There are many grandparents who are still working but they would like to spend more time with their grandchildren while the parents go back to work. Now this is also possible thanks to this new funding. If a grandmother or grandfather has several grandchildren at home, childcare benefit is due after each grandchild, indeed, they enjoy guaranteed job protection: after childcare benefit runs out, they cannot be sacked.”

Protection of human life all the way from the foetal stage is important for us. How do you view the protection of life situation in Hungary?

“We also recognize the value of human life through the fact that parents are eligible for the majority of family support even from the moment that they are only expecting their child. Every human life has value. Since Christmas we have been screening a short film entitled The Gift of Life, which follows a mother’s pregnancy from beginning to end, presenting the lovely, sometimes amusing, sometimes difficult moments of expecting a child and then the birth of the child.

“Why is this important? Because a key part of education and upbringing is the protection of life: anybody who knows that human life starts with conception, who understands in childhood what a value this is, they will respect human life from the first moment to the last. I believe in this.

“This can be paralleled by the fact that we are also becoming increasingly aware about the protection of the created world, which is also due to the fact that we know more and more about it. While we did not know that we were polluting the environment, we didn’t do anything to stop it. In the same way, until we had exact knowledge that human life has already begun in the mother’s womb, that a foetus is a live and feeling person, it wasn’t evident to everyone that this had to be protected. Today, however, it is possible to carry out operations on the foetus, medical science knows virtually everything about existence within the womb, and for this reason I hope that thanks to these scientific facts as well it will become evident to an ever wider circle of people that a person must be afforded the same respect prior to birth as after birth. Today, this is not a doctrinal debate but fact.”

Yet the experience is that it doesn’t matter that virtually every gynaecological clinic has ultrasound machines and devices to amplify the heartbeat, many are still not convinced even by the exact experience that foetuses have to be given the protection due to a person.

“It is not worth juxtaposing the right of women to self-determination over their own bodies against the right of a foetuses to life because this doesn’t get us anywhere. Let’s not approach the matter from a judgemental point of view! Let’s get to the point where every child learns when human life starts, let’s do everything in order that an expectant mother in a crisis situation can keep her child, we are helping where we can! This is where I see our primary duty.

“So, what is our family policy about? I would like it if there would be no obstacle to having children so it is vital to support those expectant mothers, too, who are in need of assistance. It may be that they didn’t plan the child, they didn’t expect it, but if the mother is able and ready to give birth, then she should get all the help needed for this.

“We cannot allow somebody to give up on a life because she cannot bring up the child, or that she does not receive sufficient financial and spiritual support.

“There are plenty of possibilities where we can supply assistance, and adoption may also be a solution. Annually more than 1000 children are adopted, the trend is upward in this respect, and not because ever more children are being rejected by their birth parents but because children who can be adopted are finding parents ever earlier. Adoptive parents are due exactly the same family support as birth parents.”

Quite often, longed-for children cannot be born because of infertility problems and this affects an increasing number of couples. How can this issue be assisted through governmental measures?

“Prevention comes first. By now, even schoolchildren should be aware that the later a couple wait before having children, the greater the chance there is of infertility. You cannot cheat biology. Today in Hungary, every fifth or sixth couple is infertile and unfortunately by the time they go to a fertility clinic, it may already be too late. The second vital element is information: couples should ask for help in time.

“The government has just reached a decision on making infertility treatment available for everybody faster and at a cheaper price, so that couples affected by infertility can get the highest quality help directly.

“We are talking about approximately 150,000 couples. In future, they will have access to medicines needed to treat infertility – that had merely been partly supported – in effect for free and performance volume limits in the case of fertility clinics will be cancelled, that is, waiting lists are abolished. After all, in this matter we cannot erect numerical limits to reach the goal that we are able to help all couples wishing to have children. We are increasing the responsibility of the state because human life cannot be an object of business, it is not right to reach these decisions on the basis of profit interests. We want to provide a guarantee that the system of provisions serves the interests of those concerned in the best possible way and interventions support the birth of children that couples have dreamed of.”

Domestic violence and violence directed towards children are issues that also impact Hungarian society. Does this require solely a legal and judicial solution, or can family policy also have a role in resolving this serious problem?

“Violence in all forms is unacceptable. What is more, when somebody abuses their power, authority, and harms a vulnerable person, that is all the more tragic. Unfortunately, violence between partners is similarly not unknown in Hungary, which is why it is vital to take action against this using all possible means until the point that we are able to totally eradicate it. The battle against domestic violence is a matter for us all and above all else, attempts must be made at prevention. Right from an early age we must inform children about their rights, we must teach them what the inviolability of their human dignity means and how it can be harmed. In the same way, we must inform them about where the boundary lies past which we can talk about violence, since the fact is that violence can be not only physical but emotional or verbal as well. In Hungary, domestic violence is a crime and everybody should bear this in mind. The Hungarian Criminal Code severely punishes violence committed against women and children, but unfortunately we also see – as happened in the case of the double child murder in Győr – that a strict law is in vain if the court imposes only a light sentence, and gives early release from prison, for the violent father who already had a history of brutal attacks on members of his family.

“As a consequence, the government will tighten up the law and implement zero tolerance in practice. Minister Judit Varga is already working on this.”

What is the role of families in this?

“Properly functioning families and supportive communities have a mutual impact on each other. The latter build on families, meanwhile in numerous cases, church and civil communities are able to offer help to families and people who have fallen into crisis situations. And this is where the second important element of prevention comes in: recognition. For example, this is exactly what the ‘Take Notice’ and ‘Love Doesn’t Hurt’ campaign is about, that the Hungarian Interchurch Aid organization arranged and organizes in 2020, with our backing. The campaign draws attention to the fact that domestic violence is not a private matter. That something occurs behind closed doors is as much a crime as if it happened in full view of everyone. We must notice violence, not only those working in child protection, teachers, district nurses, doctors, but everyone, even neighbours. It is essential to get across the message to victims as well that they are not to blame for abuse, they must not stay silent about this because the situation will only get worse over time. It is extremely important to make a call for help as early as possible. And here is the third important step on our part: provision of effective help on the basis of the call.”

Besides those NGOs supporting victims, what sort of role does the state undertake in reducing violence between couples?

“As I have already said, I consider it most important that violent offenders, those who have already abused members of their family and children, should be in prison and judicial practices should also be employed to keep them far from the family. This is most important in the defence of victims.

“The National Crisis Management and Information Telephone Service OKIT (06-80-20-55-20) can be contacted day and night, free of charge, and its website contains information and advice for victims.

“In a crisis situation, OKIT helps and coordinates the admission of victims, getting them to a crisis centre or secret safe house. Currently 20 crisis centres are operating in the country and a total of eight secret refuges provide help for those escaping specific danger-to-life threats. After termination of the crisis situation, victims may gain admittance to so-called ‘half-way houses’, the number of which has tripled over the past few years.

“I have personally visited these centres on several occasions and however shocking it is to see vulnerable and intimidated victims, in every case I was filled with admiration for the professional work that is conducted in these places. Those who have asked for help can move from apparently hopeless situations to once again standing on their own feet, and they have a good chance that their children will be spared further suffering.”