“What else is worth investing in but the children of the future?” – In conversation with Katalin Novák

From among the achievements of the past year, what are you particularly proud of in your work and in your personal life?

“Let’s look at one or two specific things from this very active year! Professionally speaking, the Budapest Demographic Summit was one of the events I look back on with pride in the year we have left behind. This was the third occasion that we invited from all round the globe those people who think as we do on the subject of families, and it was good to see that there are ever more of us: during this period, governmental, NGO, church and scientific players working for families have gained in strength. For these two days, Budapest really was the capital of families: we could experience that we are not alone, that there is sense to our work, and it was very good to be here as a Hungarian! To raise another example beyond the Family Protection Action Plan known by most people, I value the fact that in 2019 we were able to make a major advance in discovering and solving the problems of children and their families living with Type 1 diabetes. There are nearly 4000 such families in Hungary, for whom everyday life represents a serious challenge; it is very good to help here so that these children and their relatives can finally live a more complete life.

“In my personal life, I would mention when we could go and support our daughter in her first basketball match, it was a great feeling and new parental experience that the whole family could cheer her on in a game. Of our three children, two started a new school where they have to perform to a much higher level. I would like to give them more help so that they find it easier to wrestle with the new challenges. If they don’t perform to the best of their abilities, I look on it as a personal failure. I don’t think that everyone has to be A+ in all subjects, but their abilities have to be developed and we have to support them in this.”

Several in the Képmás editorial office declare themselves to be conservative feminists, which means family-centric equal opportunity activism. We hold the government’s family protection activities in high esteem because alongside many other beneficial effects, it helps lessen those disadvantages women may suffer that can derive from motherhood. We consider one of the most important events of 2019 to be when Prime Minister Viktor Orbán announced the launch of the Family Protection Action Plan.

“As far as conservative feminism goes: yes, women must receive support. We do not want anyone to lose an opportunity just because they are a woman. The greatest challenge in the life of women is when family and work tasks clash. This is why we are trying to provide the greatest help here.

“The announcement of the Family Protection Action Plan (despite me knowing what the prime minister was going to say) was for me a moving moment. I received feedback from many other places saying that others were similarly affected as they sat in front of their TV sets after the announcement. For us, the real work started after this. I won’t tell you that everything went smoothly from the start. For example, we received many more applications for car purchase grants for large families than we had originally calculated; initially we reckoned that about 10,000 would submit applications in one year but we are now already over the 20,000 mark and only six months has passed. This is why at the beginning the administration was rather slower than we would have liked, but we have made every effort to change this. I am confident that everyone has received access to funding on time.

“The Family Protection Action Plan is able to help many hundreds of thousands of Hungarians in all sorts of different situations, whether in terms of beginning a family, setting up a home, starting an independent life or raising children, the perfect example of which is that by today, nearly 100,000 families have applied for one form of support or another in the action plan.”

The Hungarian family support system is very diverse. To what extent have you been able to get information across to those who need it?

“One of our basic principles is that it should be as simple as possible to submit a claim for the grants. Earlier, for example, the ‘soc-pol’ system was extremely complicated, while today the fundamental principle is clear: the more children, the greater the level of support. Perhaps now Hungarians can really feel that those who are planning and expecting children can count on assistance. It is important that in every new life situation – if a brother or sister joins the family, if a child starts going to school, if a family would like a new home or would like to exchange their car – then it is well worth getting informed about the opportunities because in virtually every life situation we stand alongside young people and families, offering help. If anybody needs up-to-date, authentic and understandable information, I would recommend they go to csalad.hu. It is easy to find one’s way around and there is no need to read up on the details in the incomprehensible language of legal regulations but in the simplest of formulations. I have no hesitation in recommending this website for everyone!

“At the same time, it is worth phoning the government helpline on 1818, which is accessible 24 hours a day on every day of the week, where trained members of staff are ready to take calls.

“More than 30,000 calls have already been received only with regard to the Family Protection Action Plan. In other words, everyone can receive information, it is only up to them whether they take advantage of the opportunities.”

There are countless family life situations and it is difficult to offer a response to every situation. For instance, in a comment made to an article on kepmas.hu a mother complained that in the case of a graduate on GYED (childcare benefit), the person has to go out to work again before the birth of the second child in order to remain eligible for childcare benefit.

“Precisely in December the legislative provisions of graduates on childcare benefit were modified in the National Assembly so this year this matter is no longer an issue, it has been resolved. It was a legitimate suggestion and we responded to it. We receive a huge amount of feedback from families in all kinds of circumstances; this modification was similarly in response to such feedback. Family policy is a little like football in that everyone has their own opinion about it. Which personally speaking I am pleased about because this ensures that feedback makes its way to us, we are then able to assess the claims, and in given cases we can insert them into the funding system. We are constantly monitoring and we make every effort to establish forums where we can properly respond to issues raised there. We also receive regular feedback from customer services while KINCS (Kopp Mária Institute for Demography and Families) also frequently conducts opinion polls on the topic. Stability of legislation and predictability are important but where necessary we respond sensibly and reasonably.”

From January 2020, childcare benefit for grandparents and exemption from personal income tax for mothers of four or more children came into force. Do you know of similar legislation in other countries?

“There is not really another international example like this, wherever I go in the world everyone is amazed when I speak about such things. Many are unaware with regard to exception from personal income tax for mothers of four or more children that this is for life: in other words, any mother who is expecting a fourth child will not pay personal income tax after income on work she has done for the rest of her life, irrespective of all other benefits. This entitlement remains in force even if she should lose one of her children.

“Tax exemption affects nearly 40,000 mothers. Everyone who is in this situation can count on receiving support.

“Grandparent childcare benefit also offers genuine help. There are many grandparents who are still working but they would like to spend more time with their grandchildren while the parents go back to work. Now this is also possible thanks to this new funding. If a grandmother or grandfather has several grandchildren at home, childcare benefit is due after each grandchild, indeed, they enjoy guaranteed job protection: after childcare benefit runs out, they cannot be sacked.”

Protection of human life all the way from the foetal stage is important for us. How do you view the protection of life situation in Hungary?

“We also recognize the value of human life through the fact that parents are eligible for the majority of family support even from the moment that they are only expecting their child. Every human life has value. Since Christmas we have been screening a short film entitled The Gift of Life, which follows a mother’s pregnancy from beginning to end, presenting the lovely, sometimes amusing, sometimes difficult moments of expecting a child and then the birth of the child.

“Why is this important? Because a key part of education and upbringing is the protection of life: anybody who knows that human life starts with conception, who understands in childhood what a value this is, they will respect human life from the first moment to the last. I believe in this.

“This can be paralleled by the fact that we are also becoming increasingly aware about the protection of the created world, which is also due to the fact that we know more and more about it. While we did not know that we were polluting the environment, we didn’t do anything to stop it. In the same way, until we had exact knowledge that human life has already begun in the mother’s womb, that a foetus is a live and feeling person, it wasn’t evident to everyone that this had to be protected. Today, however, it is possible to carry out operations on the foetus, medical science knows virtually everything about existence within the womb, and for this reason I hope that thanks to these scientific facts as well it will become evident to an ever wider circle of people that a person must be afforded the same respect prior to birth as after birth. Today, this is not a doctrinal debate but fact.”

Yet the experience is that it doesn’t matter that virtually every gynaecological clinic has ultrasound machines and devices to amplify the heartbeat, many are still not convinced even by the exact experience that foetuses have to be given the protection due to a person.

“It is not worth juxtaposing the right of women to self-determination over their own bodies against the right of a foetuses to life because this doesn’t get us anywhere. Let’s not approach the matter from a judgemental point of view! Let’s get to the point where every child learns when human life starts, let’s do everything in order that an expectant mother in a crisis situation can keep her child, we are helping where we can! This is where I see our primary duty.

“So, what is our family policy about? I would like it if there would be no obstacle to having children so it is vital to support those expectant mothers, too, who are in need of assistance. It may be that they didn’t plan the child, they didn’t expect it, but if the mother is able and ready to give birth, then she should get all the help needed for this.

“We cannot allow somebody to give up on a life because she cannot bring up the child, or that she does not receive sufficient financial and spiritual support.

“There are plenty of possibilities where we can supply assistance, and adoption may also be a solution. Annually more than 1000 children are adopted, the trend is upward in this respect, and not because ever more children are being rejected by their birth parents but because children who can be adopted are finding parents ever earlier. Adoptive parents are due exactly the same family support as birth parents.”

Quite often, longed-for children cannot be born because of infertility problems and this affects an increasing number of couples. How can this issue be assisted through governmental measures?

“Prevention comes first. By now, even schoolchildren should be aware that the later a couple wait before having children, the greater the chance there is of infertility. You cannot cheat biology. Today in Hungary, every fifth or sixth couple is infertile and unfortunately by the time they go to a fertility clinic, it may already be too late. The second vital element is information: couples should ask for help in time.

“The government has just reached a decision on making infertility treatment available for everybody faster and at a cheaper price, so that couples affected by infertility can get the highest quality help directly.

“We are talking about approximately 150,000 couples. In future, they will have access to medicines needed to treat infertility – that had merely been partly supported – in effect for free and performance volume limits in the case of fertility clinics will be cancelled, that is, waiting lists are abolished. After all, in this matter we cannot erect numerical limits to reach the goal that we are able to help all couples wishing to have children. We are increasing the responsibility of the state because human life cannot be an object of business, it is not right to reach these decisions on the basis of profit interests. We want to provide a guarantee that the system of provisions serves the interests of those concerned in the best possible way and interventions support the birth of children that couples have dreamed of.”

Domestic violence and violence directed towards children are issues that also impact Hungarian society. Does this require solely a legal and judicial solution, or can family policy also have a role in resolving this serious problem?

“Violence in all forms is unacceptable. What is more, when somebody abuses their power, authority, and harms a vulnerable person, that is all the more tragic. Unfortunately, violence between partners is similarly not unknown in Hungary, which is why it is vital to take action against this using all possible means until the point that we are able to totally eradicate it. The battle against domestic violence is a matter for us all and above all else, attempts must be made at prevention. Right from an early age we must inform children about their rights, we must teach them what the inviolability of their human dignity means and how it can be harmed. In the same way, we must inform them about where the boundary lies past which we can talk about violence, since the fact is that violence can be not only physical but emotional or verbal as well. In Hungary, domestic violence is a crime and everybody should bear this in mind. The Hungarian Criminal Code severely punishes violence committed against women and children, but unfortunately we also see – as happened in the case of the double child murder in Győr – that a strict law is in vain if the court imposes only a light sentence, and gives early release from prison, for the violent father who already had a history of brutal attacks on members of his family.

“As a consequence, the government will tighten up the law and implement zero tolerance in practice. Minister Judit Varga is already working on this.”

What is the role of families in this?

“Properly functioning families and supportive communities have a mutual impact on each other. The latter build on families, meanwhile in numerous cases, church and civil communities are able to offer help to families and people who have fallen into crisis situations. And this is where the second important element of prevention comes in: recognition. For example, this is exactly what the ‘Take Notice’ and ‘Love Doesn’t Hurt’ campaign is about, that the Hungarian Interchurch Aid organization arranged and organizes in 2020, with our backing. The campaign draws attention to the fact that domestic violence is not a private matter. That something occurs behind closed doors is as much a crime as if it happened in full view of everyone. We must notice violence, not only those working in child protection, teachers, district nurses, doctors, but everyone, even neighbours. It is essential to get across the message to victims as well that they are not to blame for abuse, they must not stay silent about this because the situation will only get worse over time. It is extremely important to make a call for help as early as possible. And here is the third important step on our part: provision of effective help on the basis of the call.”

Besides those NGOs supporting victims, what sort of role does the state undertake in reducing violence between couples?

“As I have already said, I consider it most important that violent offenders, those who have already abused members of their family and children, should be in prison and judicial practices should also be employed to keep them far from the family. This is most important in the defence of victims.

“The National Crisis Management and Information Telephone Service OKIT (06-80-20-55-20) can be contacted day and night, free of charge, and its website contains information and advice for victims.

“In a crisis situation, OKIT helps and coordinates the admission of victims, getting them to a crisis centre or secret safe house. Currently 20 crisis centres are operating in the country and a total of eight secret refuges provide help for those escaping specific danger-to-life threats. After termination of the crisis situation, victims may gain admittance to so-called ‘half-way houses’, the number of which has tripled over the past few years.

“I have personally visited these centres on several occasions and however shocking it is to see vulnerable and intimidated victims, in every case I was filled with admiration for the professional work that is conducted in these places. Those who have asked for help can move from apparently hopeless situations to once again standing on their own feet, and they have a good chance that their children will be spared further suffering.”